Rock-Scissors-Scissors
Sep 29, 2008 10:12:03

My grandmother had a joke she told often, the punch line of which ran like this: "Bitch, bitch, bitch...I haven't even made it yet." Now you may say to yourselves at this point, Holy Moses Warhammer hasn't even been out of the gate a week yet and she's already complaining about it. But to me, the IP (intellectual property) for this game is like a dearly beloved relative; only someone who really cares about you will tell you that you have a gob of snot hanging from your nose - everyone else will just let it hang there. The second line of thought runs like this: I will give a developer a mile of leeway during beta but not an inch once it hits the shelves.

First let me lead off with "all hail Mark Jacobs for bringing a game that has pvp and rvr designed in to it and not added as an afterthought."

Beyond that, lets take this out of the realm of pvp that requires consequences; that is a particular issue that has been bandied about the internet "ad nauseum". Let us consider both scenarios (battlegrounds for you WoW only folks out there) and RvR (realm vs. realm). Even if there is no other reason to pvp then get back at the other guy (and in fact a dev in video over at g4tv.com gave this very reason as a reason for pvp to continue in endgame once you have taken the other guys city) there still has to be balance to the available classes. The thing is, everyone talks about game balance in pvp, but what they really want is the balance tipped in their favor. It was just yesterday that a guildie pointed out the following:

"I think wives, aunts and uncles will be attracted to Order. Order is just less offensive then Destruction to a lot of people. And for the most part none of these people have ever pvp'd" - Trimethicon



I do indeed agree, however, the flip side of this particular issue is that for the first time there is a game that actually does a good job of enticing people who mainly engage in pve to try pvp and nothing could please me more than doing something to encourage this part of the game. To paraphrase a line from "Hello Dolly"

"PvP, if you'll pardon the expression, is like manure - it's no good unless it's spread around encouraging younger players to grow in that part of the game."

In the same G4tv.com clip about warhammer (the MMO report Warhammer launch special part 2) one of the devs discusses about how well the collision detection works, and proceeds to tell us about playing order and not being able to take down a black orc. He goes on to regale us with the tale of how he and order side team mates finally surrounded the black orc with six people in order to take him down. While it was nice the collision detection worked didn't it occur to the dev that the black orc tank is just a wee bit overpowered?

Another guild mate insists that there is a game bug that allows a destruction player to use a hit point buffer instantly that is supposed to have a cool down. I hope this is true, because the practical upshot of all this is that at this point the game seems to have become a "rock-scissors-scissors" game orientated toward destruction. What is incredibly interesting in all this to me is that destruction players seem to feel that order always wins.

So in the end, whether we are talking about black orc tanks in Warhammer, or rogues in World of Warcraft, nothing can kill pvp faster than one side dominating the game. When that happens, players start to leave pvp and developers are forced to dangle ever greater carrots in front of players to get them to keep playing pvp. Witness what has happened with WoW lately. Blizzard has finally been forced to allow pve to pvp transfers just to get people to do open world pvp again. It's almost like a case of a child having to have a hunk of meat around their neck to get the neighborhood dog to play with them. If one side begins to dominate all the time or one class begins to dominate all the time you will end up with pvp becoming a pariah. The "winning" side will have no one to fight and find themselves standing around saying "ok...so now what?" Consider what used to happen in Alterac Battlegrounds in WoW if you wanted to play on the Alliance side. On many servers a typical wait to get into battleground was an hour and thats on a busy server when everyone is playing.

So even if I point out the occasional gob of snot hanging on Mythic's virtual nose, it's only because I love them so much.

See you online,

- Julie Whitefeather


Submitted by Brent on Sep 29, 2008 10:12:03 CST (comments: 5)


Comments:


'Or put another way...' by Celestian
Submitted on 2008-09-29 17:55:25 CST
"I think wives, aunts and uncles will be attracted to Order. Order is just less offensive then Destruction to a lot of people. And for the most part none of these people have ever pvp'd" - Trimethicon
----------

Or put another way "If you don't play destruction you must not be a PVPer because I picked it and I know what's best in PVP."

Sorry, I don't buy this crap. It's just another sidelong insult against the team he didn't pick.



'In defense of Trimethicon' by Julie
Submitted on 2008-09-29 19:14:45 CST
In defense of Trimethicon, the quote is from someone who plays on the order side and not destruction. Personally, I think Mythic has done a fantastic job with the greenskins and lately I have been playing my goblin shaman more than any other character. As for myself, I hope that order does attract many individuals who have never played pvp before. For that matter I hope both sides attract alot of players to pvp who have never played pvp before.

Not only do I want to get alot of "fresh blood" (so to speak...new players) interested in pvp but I am hoping those same people won't bring preconcieved notions of what makes good pvp. What I mean by that are those many, many people who seem to feel that a given character class in pvp MUST assume a certain role instead of breaking out of the same tired old archetypes.

Julie



'for Order..' by Celestian
Submitted on 2008-09-30 12:35:32 CST
I can't imagine someone on Order saying what he did unless he just had one of those "scenarios" where they got beat down and he was ticked off at his mates when the problem wasn't just them.

You could just as easily make the claim that Destro will be full of young angst ridden emo wielding kids and thus have less "experience" in "RVR".

Both are bogus and just broad generalizations. My son is neither uncle or aunt and is just barely a teen and he plays Order so his theory is already busted.





'Blackorcs loves heals and dont pay for em' by AdmiralAwesome
Submitted on 2008-10-22 09:00:38 CST
The ironbreaker is just as hard to bring down, but the trick is to ignore the black orc and go for his healers, unless i get a private healer I\'m going down in about 20 sec if i get 5 guys on me.

But i got this fancy shaman mate that i guard pretty good so you\'ll have a hard time bringing down either of us



'Thats the trick isn't it...' by Julie
Submitted on 2008-10-22 11:53:12 CST
Having a shaman mate that you look out after is really the trick. Unfortunately there is a great deal of time when I heal someone and when someone starts to pound on the shaman no one else is in sight. But in the end the point is about how tough or relatively tough Black Orc Tanks and Ironbreaker tanks are. One way or the other you are quite correct. Put a good healer at their back that the tank looks out for and the tank is very hard to take down.

Thanks for the comment.

Julie




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