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VirginWorlds MMORPG News
Host: Brent
VirginWorlds is a weekly news podcast covering Massively Multiplayer Online Role Playing Games (MMORPGs) such as World of Warcraft, EverQuest, Guild Wars, City of Heroes, Eve Online, Vanguard, Lord of the Rings Online and many many more. The VirginWorlds MMORPG Podcast is the flagship podcast of the VirginWorlds MMO Podcast Collective found at http://www.virginworlds.com

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VirginWorlds Podcast #80
Mon, 30 Jul 2007 01:47:00 GMT [download/play]



Part two of this year's top ten list is now available for your enjoyment/ridicule/fury/love/praise/rebuttals/etc. Last year we ranked the top ten MMOs of the past decade and this year we look forward to the top ten most anticipated/important/cool/innovative MMOs on the horizon. The panel consists of Brenden from Another Here.com, Michael from MMOGNation and Darren from SUWT and The Common Sense Gamer.  Be sure to check out Part One first!

Just like Part One, a couple little audio issues with my audio track, but overall it's good and doesn't lose anything.  Lesson learned there.

Enjoy.

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Episode 80 Discussion Thread

'What about Spellborn?' by Kanthalos
Submitted on 2007-07-30 08:29:28 CST
I guess my biggest flaw with this list is unannounced games. I think you should have praised the companies and expressed your anticipation for them, I don't think they belonged on the list. I do think that Spellborn did not get the credit it deserves, but everyone has their own opinion. Overall though, very well done and for the most part I agreed with the list.


'Top 13 list...' by sifo
Submitted on 2007-07-30 10:11:52 CST
Nice top 13 list. I wholeheartedly agree with your number 1 -- it looks as if it will be huge. I was surprised that Age of Conan wasn't higher though. I know quite a few people who are really excited about it.


'Top 10 - criterion of quality' by twistah
Submitted on 2007-07-30 10:21:37 CST
An interesting couple of shows. However, one thing becomes very obvious, and that is how different people deem a game good/successful. Its a matter of taste of course, but the 'secret algorithm' could be clearer of what would make a game successful or not. Number of subscribers, install base, level of innovation, cred amogst the MMO hardcore players ?

On that note, I would have to agree with Kanthalos, unannounced games making the top 5 is a bit of a stretch. Even Nostradamus wouldnt have dared to judge a unknown game solely on the designers past endeavors. :)



'Spellborn' by Dathmar
Submitted on 2007-07-30 11:33:40 CST
I did think originally that Spellborn should be on the list - but then thought about it again.
The game has missed too many deadlines that I fear it might be past its "Sell by Date" when it eventually comes out - and if that is Q4 2007 - its got AoC , PotBS and probably Gods and Heroes to contend with.




'One or two you missed' by Dathmar
Submitted on 2007-07-30 11:45:10 CST
I am really upset the following missed the top ....2 at least !!

Hero's Journey
and
Darkfall

Come on these are going to be great games....why were they missed ?

BTW - good work Brent + co. - I love these type of Podcasts





''Secret Algorithm' (TM)' by Akely
Submitted on 2007-07-30 12:26:03 CST
I bet my firstborn that the 'Secret Algorithm' (TM) is very similar to pulling opinions out of ones own ass. :-D Which is exactly as these type of list SHOULD be done. After all: there can be no right or wrong, at this stage, when it comes to opinions.

I really liked the dynamics of/between the participants on these shows!



'Odd fastforward' by granor
Submitted on 2007-07-30 13:49:27 CST
I have gotten odd spots in the last 2 podcasts where it sounds like it is in fastforward for a bit then it stops again. It has happened about 3 times in each pod cast.

example: in #80 it happens around 15:44 into the podcast (24:52 left)
Last until about 15:46

Not sure what is up but I am sure you would like to know.

granor



'Re: Secret Algorithm (TM)' by twistah
Submitted on 2007-07-30 13:50:14 CST
Akely: Sure, these lists are about opinions. I agree, however, when the list is named "Top 10", then there must be something that is quantified at some level to make a game "better" than the next. Im not really sure I got what that thing was. Is it popularity, financial success or what ?
Take PS3 Home. Is that going to make any money as a stand alone virtual world ?

Dont get me wrong, I actually thought that this is partly what made the list interesting.

And besides, these guys knows their MMO, if they are pulling anything out, it is out of a well informed ass. No wait, that did not came out all wrong ....

;)



'RE: Odd fastforward' by granor
Submitted on 2007-07-30 13:54:58 CST
I get the pod cast from itunes. Sorry I forgot that before
granor



''RE: Odd fastforward' by granor ' by dak
Submitted on 2007-07-30 14:31:37 CST
Same here. I get the podcast from itunes. It seems to me to only happen when Brent talks and I noticed the problem about 15-20 times in this podcast. really annoying. I think ill try the Gcast flash player in a bit and see if its there too.


'granor and dak.' by Brent
Submitted on 2007-07-30 14:38:59 CST
...look to the left at the podcast description and at the podcast description for 79.


''RE: Odd fastforward' by granor ' by dak
Submitted on 2007-07-30 14:47:22 CST
The odd skipping/fast forwarding is in the flash player verision too.


'\'RE: Odd fastforward\' by granor ' by dak
Submitted on 2007-07-30 14:48:16 CST
oops I see it now. sorry brent. :)


'The Agency's my #1' by hallower
Submitted on 2007-07-30 15:13:48 CST
The Star Trek IP is much more conducive to MMOs than Stargate. As I said on Pixiestyx's site, a lot of Stargate's appeal (at least, judging from the episodes I've seen...mostly the Atlantis series) is spontaneous humor. Something happens and a character makes a wisecrack about it. And there's always that balance of personalities...the asocial wiseass scientist, the laid-back Hans Solo-like soldier, etc. Star Trek has humor and personality conflict, but it was far more dynamic. Either MMO could turn out well, but Star Trek seems more likely to fit well into the genre.

The Agency -- good choice! That one has me excited. The same with Bioware's MMO, though I hope they don't let their respect for stories lead them into a making a more linear game.

I still haven't gotten around to reading up on Warhammer Online. I guess I'll have to check it out. I'm where Brenden is on that one right now. RvR is a great setting for MMOs.



'Well...' by darrenl
Submitted on 2007-07-30 17:50:34 CST
Yes...like we said at the end of show 80. Instead of 2 jackasses giving out a list it's 4 jackasses. These are educated guesses at best and everyone is welcome, I'm sure, to put up their own top 10 future MMOs.

The list that I came up with were MMOs that I think would make the most impact. Those that I think will have the most impact were the ones that had a "unique" setting, i.e. Agency, World of Darkness, PoTBS....you get the idea.

D



'WO rocks' by hallower
Submitted on 2007-07-30 20:15:49 CST
Ok, so I've watched a few of the videos on Warhammer Online now, and now I can understand what all the excitement is about. Sweet stuff.

That makes two must-play MMOs on the horizon for me.



'How about the worst 5 MMOs of all time ?' by Dathmar
Submitted on 2007-07-31 02:59:59 CST
You have done the Top 10 MMOs of all time.
and now
the Top 10 most looked forward to MMOs

I know its a little negative but how about the top 5 worst MMOs

I have a couple of recent ones for you -
D and L
Phylon - seems it came out about a month ago and the game has disappeared ?

(In all seriousness - I do think there is a growing issue with failing MMOs)



'No European on the panel?' by scytale2
Submitted on 2007-07-31 05:52:07 CST
A bit annoying to hear a bunch of fairly young American men on the Top 10, which clearly gives a somewhat unbalanced and in some cases immature view of the future. Poor old Funcom's "Secret World" lack of inclusion was disappointing. It was also a bit pathetic that people couldn't avoid swearing in one single hour of their lifetime.

I'm not arguing about the list very much, but it was a bit lamely presented, with too little variety of opinion and incisive comment.

I don't think Phylon has been launched yet?



'Many responses' by Brent
Submitted on 2007-07-31 08:47:29 CST
"I do think that Spellborn did not get the credit it deserves."

Spellborn is a game that seems to have worn out its welcome before it even launched. I don't know when it is supposed to launch now and I firmly believe it is going to go unnoticed. I've always though the game looked great but they've spent a ton of time trying to stun us with spinning skill wheels and dense lore. Just release it already.

"I was surprised that Age of Conan wasn't higher though."

Me too.

"Even Nostradamus wouldn't have dared to judge a unknown game solely on the designers past endeavors."

Blizzard would disagree. Brenden did agree with you. And after all, I am the prognosticator right?

"Hero's Journey and Darkfall"

Again, like Spellborn, I think those of us on the podcast who are following the news on MMORPGs every week have reached that point where we're not even going to talk about those games until they prove they're actually going to come out. This flies in the face of the listing of games with no title, but oh well. Dark Fall has been teasing us all for a bit too long now and Hero's Journey? /shrug

"Secret Algorithm' (TM) is very similar to pulling opinions out of ones own ass"

What would make you think it's anything else? :)

"there must be something that is quantified at some level to make a game better than the next"

You mean like World of Warcraft?

"how about the top 5 worst MMOs"

That would be a festival of negativity wouldn't it? Not a bad idea.

"A bit annoying to hear a bunch of fairly young American men on the Top 10, which clearly gives a somewhat unbalanced and in some cases immature view of the future."

Who is immature?

"It was also a bit pathetic that people couldn't avoid swearing in one single hour of their lifetime."

Praise for Shawn's explicit podcast and finger pointing at this one - all within the span of 5 minutes. How quaint. I think I've bleeped less than 10 words in 80-some HOURS of podcasts. Please.

"lamely presented, with too little variety of opinion and incisive comment"

That's what everyone else said too.



'2 things' by Dathmar
Submitted on 2007-07-31 09:01:03 CST
1 - Brent - I was honestly joking - I picked the 2 most delayed games that I could find on the MMORPG.COM game list.
To add to my Spellborn thoughts.
Sorry - perhaps its my British humour.

2 - scytale2 - I think your comments are a bit too harsh - I don't want to speak for Brent - so I won't - but perhaps you should avoid non news type podcasts in the future ? - as they seems wind you up a little ?





'Darkfall and Hero's Journey FTW' by Brent
Submitted on 2007-07-31 09:05:46 CST
Heh. I wondered. Where the heck are those two games? Thanks for the support.

Oh, Atriarch needs to be on the list too.



'2 things' by Dathmar
Submitted on 2007-07-31 09:19:57 CST
1 - Brent - I was honestly joking - I picked the 2 most delayed games that I could find on the MMORPG.COM game list.
To add to my Spellborn thoughts.
Sorry - perhaps its my British humour.

2 - scytale2 - I think your comments are a bit too harsh - I don't want to speak for Brent - so I won't - but perhaps you should avoid non news type podcasts in the future ? - as they seems wind you up a little ?





'nice..' by darrenl
Submitted on 2007-07-31 10:33:31 CST
Scytale2...

I'm really looking forward to your upcoming, mature, non-explicit, hip top 10 variety podcast.

...baited breath my friend. Baited breath.



'anticipation?' by Sente
Submitted on 2007-07-31 12:27:00 CST
To be honest, I cannot say whether I agree with he list or not in terms of a top 10 of something, since I cannot really say what the criteria actually was. Only Brendan seemed to have applied some specific criteria that may be quantified.

So I saw this more as a general conversation between 4 persons what future games they were sort of looking forward to rather than some specific top 10 - which is just fine and you seemed to have a good time.






'Only 5% of the time critical' by scytale2
Submitted on 2007-07-31 14:36:08 CST
I don't generally criticise. I hate Brendan's unprofessional swearing and I'm sure I'm not the only one. I think there was another bleep, but that didn't seem deliberate and didn't detract from the podcast in the same way.
With regard to the presentation this time - we all have opinions and I have the courage to voice them. It's not rocket science that four American men would sound very similar and that's why very few TV programmes use this kind of all-male format.
My upcoming podcast .......will have to wait until I am invited on one; making my own is much too difficult:)



'Ummmm...' by darrenl
Submitted on 2007-07-31 14:55:35 CST
I'm not American...I thought my flapping head made a distinct sound on the show, but I guess not.


'And...' by darrenl
Submitted on 2007-07-31 15:06:51 CST
Scytale, I don't think we're quesitoning your courage regarding your opinions, just your delivery.

Keep in mind why you don't do these things on your own next time you decide to call other people's work immature, pathetic and lame.

We love constructive criticism , but keep that tone up and people just eventually ignore you. Starting to get to that point myself. Just a friendly heads up.

D



'Its the words used that's the problem.' by Dathmar
Submitted on 2007-07-31 15:12:43 CST
This is the last thing I would like to say on this as I don't want this get out of hand.
but Scytale2 -
Its not being critical that's the issue here , its (for me anyway) the words you used and the approach you took that some of the podcast members might take offence to.

Words like -
immature
pathetic
a bit lamely presented

Also I guess that there were 4 men from the US and no Europeans in the podcast is due to the time difference and nothing else.

As to the swearing, well I have always had the option if you do not direct your swearing at an individual or collection of people - then its only a word that is used as an expression of your feeling....say to exaggerate the expression....
not so bad really ?- just not for young ones ears
and I doubt many under 11s want to listen to 4 grumpy (joking... only joking) men talk about MMOs that aren't even out yet !



'science and new math' by Brent
Submitted on 2007-07-31 15:13:39 CST
For those wondering if there's really some sort of formula to our lists.

Not really.

I thought it was obvious that I was kidding when I refer to the 'science' and 'new math' but maybe not.

Here's how it works. Everyone makes their own list with 1 to 10. Scores for each game are tabulated. Games that didn't appear on a person's list are assigned an 11 in that slot. Lowest score wins. It's that simple. Essentially it is detailed enough to get a consensus among the hosts.

Patent pending of course.



'flap filter' by Brent
Submitted on 2007-07-31 15:14:24 CST
I have a post-processing tool that reduces head flapping.


'Snap Darren' by Dathmar
Submitted on 2007-07-31 15:14:32 CST
Must have posted at the same like - just can't type as fast as you !!
All that blogging pays off then ?



'Again...' by darrenl
Submitted on 2007-07-31 15:17:15 CST
Not American.

...is my flapping head not obvious??

Brent, tell them I'm not American. Tell them I'm from the country with GOOD beer. I'll wait here whilst Brent explains the differences...



'bleeping Brenden (and me)' by Brent
Submitted on 2007-07-31 15:18:07 CST
Brenden's bleeped words in this show was actually a direct quote from the trailer of the Agency, so even though I don't mind bleeping stuff (I actually think it makes it more comical), in this case, it was... a quote.

The other bleep was an authentic slip by me. I think we were talking about Lego Universe and I said something to the effect of: "This game is going to be huge assuming that Netdevil doesn't completely $&!t the bed." (Which I don't think they'll do.) I edited it out, but right after I said that, I actually said "woah, I actually have to bleep myself."



'Canadian Beer' by Brent
Submitted on 2007-07-31 15:20:11 CST
What's do Canadian Beers and Urine Samples have in common?


'Don't do it Brent...' by darrenl
Submitted on 2007-07-31 15:21:39 CST
...don't even think about it. I've got the beavers at the ready my friend and I will use them.


'Sorry I mean North Americans...really I do.' by Dathmar
Submitted on 2007-07-31 15:22:18 CST
Oops - Sorry forgot Darren
Feel free to call me Welsh
(Not that I have ANYTHING against the Welsh...well not much)





'A bit unfair?' by Scott
Submitted on 2007-07-31 17:27:05 CST
Can't say I agree about the inclusion of games that don't even have any significant public info available, nor set release dates, and yet you're giving Hero's Journey and Darkfall grief? At least we know those games exist and are on the radar. ;)

As a whole I think the 2 shows did better to give everybody an idea of you and your co-hosts take on all the upcoming games and the mindshare they had with everybody present.

As for the profanity, it really doesn't bother me as an adult. If you or your co-hosts cut loose every now and then but do so maturely I personally don't feel it detracts from the listening experience.

Its only when you let it get out of hand it shows a lack of professionalism, and I do believe there's plenty of other podcasts that have that niche well covered.



'Ok, last comment A' by scytale2
Submitted on 2007-07-31 18:09:29 CST
I apologise for the implied meaning of my words, which were a bit hastily constructed and probably a bit hurtful. I have a bit more time now, so will explain more clearly.
My feeling was that the 4-person formula was wrong and it caused what is usually an interesting podcast to fall a bit flat. There was obviously incisive comment there, but it got lost amongst immature banter and silliness. This happened in the early SUYT podcasts too, which have a very similar format.
To some extent it pains me that the professionalism of Brent's podcast cannot seem to attract professional industry commentators, but that's maybe because such an animal does not yet exist. It's a bit like me being asked to read the BBC Evening news. I could make a fair go at it, but it wouldn't be as good as it could be.
I think we should be aiming high for VirginWorlds, essentially the global industry multimedia comment on MMO, one of the most significant things happening in the world at this point in time. VirginWorlds is the best there is in the absence of a regular TV programme, which surely must be around the corner.



'Last comment B' by scytale2
Submitted on 2007-07-31 18:09:54 CST
Quality needs to be king and once in a while the podcast drops a bit, for one reason or other - the sound glitches Brent mentioned aren't great either. If we all keep patting each other on the back, then we don't improve. I say "we" because I feel part of our little community just as much as any, as a regular listener and I want Brent to get the success he deserves.
There is always an excuse for not including Europeans, but most of us are awake 17 hours a day, and Urban Mongrel seems to manage to present one of the podcasts in the collective. You don't comment on the absence of women in the panel.
This is clearly a "universal" podcast for all ages and profanity is not allowed in U certificate films. I was quite shocked that Sony would include the bleeped expletive in their Agency trailer, but I guess this is designed to make the game "cool" for the teen market, like the stereotypical woman agent and thuggish machinegunner. To me it's irresponsible and juvenile and I suspect the majority of the population would agree with me that we'd moved on from this. Violence and stereotypes provide just cheap thrills and replace any creativity at all. All the panel seemed to love it, which is why I felt strongly that it lacked balance.
Well that will probably do - am sorry if I hijacked the thread. I've probably said enough:)



'Better..' by darrenl
Submitted on 2007-07-31 20:01:22 CST
Thanks Scytale...those comments make you more approachable for sure :)

...and a VW TV show, hmmmmm.



'Uh....' by Foodstuff
Submitted on 2007-08-02 07:06:32 CST
I think it might just be my file but it seems that every now and then the podcast has this weird skipping effect. Just thought I'd let you guys know.