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No Prisoners, No Mercy
Host: Julie Whitefeather & Frances Kosac
There comes a time, friends, when your favorite MMO ceases to sparkle, when even new videogames lose their luster, and the computer room becomes a prison; and all that is left are two gamers (who happen to be nuns) with a very large axe to grind. Come join Julie Whitefeather and Frances Kosac as they go to War - and along the way discuss the events of the week in the MMO industry.

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Related site: http://www.virginworlds.com/blog.php?cat=julie


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No Prisoners, No Mercy - Show 10
Thu, 16 Oct 2008 19:45:00 GMT [download/play]



1. Mad as Hell: Virtual market crashes, No heals for you
2. "Boss says make it bigger"
3. The Soup...er...heal nazi
4. Rob Pardo loses some sleep
5. Tattooed legs and spam
6. Goblin Shaman, Gork and Mindy
7. Goblin et al, getting some tact(ic)
8. The Happy Dwarf - listener mail
9. It's my party
10. War or WoW
11. Flame Proof Undies - mistells

Note: In honor of our guest, Geist, on our Flame Proof Undies Section who tells us about Mistells, our segue track has managed a small time warp and "mis-segued" before his section - sort of Ironic huh?

 

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Episode 10 Discussion Thread

'Thanks' by Jmo
Submitted on 2008-10-16 23:53:08 CST
Good show as usual you two.

And thank you for covering my question. I look forward to picking up WAR and trying it out. I will be creating a character to join you all on Phoenix Throne. Can't wait to see what WAR has to offer.

Side topic: I'm looking to start up a PodCast with some friends and other mods/admins at NotAddicted.com, where I help out at. I've got the recording, editing, and hosting stuff down, but what kind of pointers do you have to give out to us up and coming Podcasters?

Keep up the good work!



'No thank you...' by Julie
Submitted on 2008-10-17 08:14:34 CST
No thank you for listening and your comments. It is always good to have some "fresh blood" on the battleground (welcome to War) and in the podcast community. Fran and I are far from being "old hands" at podcasting. while she is a professional graphic designer and I have been writing for some time we are both new to podcasting. Our biggest help came from a few places...Brents "podcasting podcast" and the kind help of Ariel from Online Gaming Radio (whom I write for) who held my hand virtually through a training session on the basics of Audactiy.

Other than that I guess any success would be first and foremost to having Fran to podcast with and her wonderful sense of humor. A word of thanks should also go to all the professors I had in my theatrical back ground (I have a BFA in theater before I became a project manager and joined the ranks of business...bleh)

But I would say first and foremost if a show turns out well it is due almost entirely to Divine Intervention...no kidding.



'Just my two cents....' by Sentack
Submitted on 2008-10-17 11:32:44 CST
Hey everyone, I just want to throw out a quick comment, not completely related to the this weeks podcast or directed at anyone here, but it's just a little thing I need to get off my chest. WoW is a great game. It has it's issues, but the game itself is unmatched in terms of game play and content. That being said, I think people need to cool in the negativity towards WoW. It's just not cool, and it's something that has plagued the Warhammer community for months now, making us all look really bad. I know the game feels wonderful, but let's give it time to wear off that new car smell. Once we get to the top tier, and players get to really dig into the end game content, we might start to see if this egg is truly fresh or rotten inside.


'Praise where do and fault where IT is due' by Julie
Submitted on 2008-10-17 12:10:16 CST
No prisoners no mercy...as happy as I am for listeners and comments, when it comes to Blizzards continuing to borrow from Mythic immitation is NOT the most sincere form of flattery and at the risk of upseting people (which I seem to do so well and so often) I will not cool down being mad as hell where it is due.

That being said, if anyone believes I never praise World of Warcraft and it's creators then they have but to take a look at this weeks "New Attitude: Shocking Warhammer news" at www.onlinegamingradio.com and read down to the last line where it says "Hat's off to Blizzard" (and said sincerely, unlike the title of the article which was pure sarcasm.

As the title of the show says...No prisoners, no mercy

Julie aka The Bad Nun



'But I am happy to see' by Julie
Submitted on 2008-10-17 12:12:25 CST
I am happy to see that when I logged on this morning that all, yes ALL, of the customer service representative options are back on the menu. Obviously I can't claim any influence over that...just a very happy coincidence. Perhaps mythyic is just that good that the second there is any problem at all it is solved...

Julie



'My two cents again.' by Sentack
Submitted on 2008-10-17 14:01:46 CST
The only reason I say to be a little careful about what you say about WoW is that, there's no reason what we saw there, won't also show up here in Warhammer. Take for instance the whole issue with Talent Tree Spec. In WoW, people would grill you over what your spec was like. Here in Warhammer, we're already seeing the first few grumbles over spec, namely, that Healer classes don't spec in healing!
You also get grumbles over "Having the right class combination for teaming", heck I saw that on day 1 of Warhammer. Namely, the lack of a Tank class for Empire and Dark Elf starting areas. Later on, we'll have dungeons and Lairs (Special kinds of Dungeons) that will also need that WoW like, "Perfect group". So complaints about that happening in WoW and not in War, seem to fall flat.
People are going to grumble about stuff in general. So I tend to think, you got to be careful about what your grumbling about because in time, what you though was 'completely different', might start to look 'more of the same.'



'Tanks from Mythic' by Seritaph
Submitted on 2008-10-17 14:10:50 CST
I just read that Mythic has announced the addition of 2 new tank classes to WAR. The powers that be have answered your prayers. I guess being a nun has its advantages. That at Mythic wants good karma with you two. ;)

Here's the announcement:

LET THE TANK RUSH BEGIN! Mythic Entertainment today announced that two new careers, the Empire's Knight of the Blazing Sun and the Dark Elf Black Guard, will be added to Warhammer Online: Age of Reckoning this winter. They may be on different sides of the war, but these two heavily armored warriors have one thing in common: they can take as much punishment as they deal out on the battlefield!

The Knights of the Blazing Sun are devoted to the cult of Myrmidia, goddess of warfare and protector of civilization. These frontline combatants specialize in Battlefield Commands, using applied tactical knowledge to outmaneuver their enemies and lead their allies to victory.

Dark Elf Black Guard, on the other hand, care little for tactics or guile. The embodiment of hatred and disdain, they make up the elite of the Witch King's soldiers. Equipped with the finest armor and sharpest blades, the Black Guard is an indestructible wall of hate against which all foes are crushed.



'Fun show.' by Celestian
Submitted on 2008-10-17 14:16:53 CST
Keep up the good work. I enjoy listening to the show every release.

I'll keep an eye out on Phoenix Throne for "No Prisoners No Mercy" guild! Ditch that destruction character and come to the good side ;)




'Generic Post Title' by Julie
Submitted on 2008-10-17 15:20:59 CST
@ Sentack: yes it was just in the wee hours of this morning that I saw my first "L2P" in a battleground that was, thankfully, met with Jeers. As far as "spec'd healing" is concerned, that's why many of the healing classes have the game mechanics they do...requiring damage as well as healing for a shaman for example.

@ Seritaph: Indeed - "tanks for the memories". I doubt, however, that it has anything to do with Fran or I, but merely the fact that the Knights of the Blazing Sun are popular characters in Warhammer to begin with.

@ Celstian: Well I am still counting on crying in my elven coffee come that Saturday but if enough people show up I will just have to go back to my Dwarven Ironbreaker - right now she is homeless.

Julie



'The Spec Wars...' by Sentack
Submitted on 2008-10-17 15:47:05 CST
Mythic was smart, and tried to put in mechanics to try and give players the ability to play a more active role in the group. That being said, Spec options are still an issue of debate with groups. I already read enough about people complaining about Shamans going "Gork" The damage spec, instead of "Mork" The healing spec. But the Shamans argue that they solo better with Gork and why can't their heals be good enough. But, a lot of non-shaman people complain they just don't heal well enough. So people fall back on being a 'healer' again.

I hate it, because I wish I could swap my talent spec, like I can swap my Tactics! I get 5 different Tactic slot options, so I can focus on damage solo but then swap to my healer load out when I team, but I have to waste money on a "Respec" when I want to actually move from Solo Spec to Heal (Group Friendly) Spec.

They almost passed the "genius" test there... almost.



'Generic Post Title' by Julie
Submitted on 2008-10-17 15:52:29 CST
@ Sentack: yes it was just in the wee hours of this morning that I saw my first "L2P" in a battleground that was, thankfully, met with Jeers. As far as "spec'd healing" is concerned, that's why many of the healing classes have the game mechanics they do...requiring damage as well as healing for a shaman for example.

@ Seritaph: Indeed - "tanks for the memories". I doubt, however, that it has anything to do with Fran or I, but merely the fact that the Knights of the Blazing Sun are popular characters in Warhammer to begin with.

@ Celstian: Well I am still counting on crying in my elven coffee come that Saturday but if enough people show up I will just have to go back to my Dwarven Ironbreaker - right now she is homeless.

Julie



'Spec wars' by Julie
Submitted on 2008-10-17 15:58:07 CST
This is something we will discuss on the next show. Basically my stance has always been the same...my $15.00 per month, my game and my time. As I said in the last show, there is a reason I have changed the last name on my shaman to "Nohealzforu". Anyone outside the guild or alliance better hope I am feeling cheritable that particular day. I believe we can all praise the Mytic devs for creating a game where someone can ask "what's your spec" and the recipiant can simply flip the person asking the question the bird if they so choose and not be locked out of the majority of the games activities.

So far, all of those people I have seen in battlegrounds that have tried to drag archaic attitudes in to the game have been met with negative responses. And as to changing out abilities players are certainly able to change out tactics within the course of a scenario.

Julie



'Me own blog...' by Sentack
Submitted on 2008-10-17 16:12:51 CST
Alright, all this back and forth has me going and making my own mini-blog. I'm going to start writing my own thoughts and posting them online for all to see soon because You galls got me thinking about all things War lately, and I just need to get a lot off my chest.

More about the Spec Wars, later.



'*waves hands wildly*' by Julie
Submitted on 2008-10-17 16:29:02 CST
Sounds great...make sure you leave us all your mini-blog url. Also how about an mp3 file talking about the subject. Pleeeeeeese.

Julie



'Blogging' by Jmo
Submitted on 2008-10-17 16:46:16 CST
@Sentack Welcome to the world of Blogging. I just startewd recently myself. It's definitely a ton of fun. I would suggest looking into Wordpress.com. It's free and easy to setup. They'll even give you an address like www.wordpress.com/sentack. Let us know the link though, I'll definitely follow it.


'*waves hands wildly*' by Julie
Submitted on 2008-10-17 17:27:58 CST
Sounds great...make sure you leave us all your mini-blog url. Also how about an mp3 file talking about the subject. Pleeeeeeese.

Julie



'Follow the bouncing post' by Julie
Submitted on 2008-10-17 17:29:56 CST
@ JMO I don't know why I ended up with a double post. However, would yuo be kind enough to share your blog URL with us so we can include it on show 11?


'My Blog' by Jmo
Submitted on 2008-10-17 17:59:30 CST
I'd love to. =)

You can get to it by going to www.jmosgamingblog.com and it will redirect you to my wordpress blog. And just because people that read my name on a website pronounce it as Letters more often than not, it's pronounced Jay Moe. We had 3 friends with similar names in high school and it was a nickname that stuck and has followed me ever since. I will forever be known as Jmo. =p



'Blogging...' by Sentack
Submitted on 2008-10-17 18:02:35 CST
I'm going to create a blog now, but I'll hold off posting any URL until I'm sure that I'm not making a complete fool out of myself. Let me come up with a few posts first, and see what if what I read from my own thoughts, comes across the way I intend it.


'Shout out' by Julie
Submitted on 2008-10-17 18:21:47 CST
Hi there and thanks for the URL Jmo or (Jay Moe). I will make sure it goes in the next podcast. And by the way Sentack, I will say that I am interested in what you think and don't think you are going to make a fool of yourself. But I understand if you want to get it going a bit first. But don't forget to keep us posted on the URL when you are read so we can put it on the show.

And what is more that goes for anyone else out there who wants a shout out for the Blog on the show.

Julie



'Shout out' by Julie
Submitted on 2008-10-17 18:37:51 CST
Hi there and thanks for the URL Jmo or (Jay Moe). I will make sure it goes in the next podcast. And by the way Sentack, I will say that I am interested in what you think and don't think you are going to make a fool of yourself. But I understand if you want to get it going a bit first. But don't forget to keep us posted on the URL when you are read so we can put it on the show.

And what is more that goes for anyone else out there who wants a shout out for the Blog on the show.

Julie



'Shout out' by Julie
Submitted on 2008-10-17 19:10:07 CST
Hi there and thanks for the URL Jmo or (Jay Moe). I will make sure it goes in the next podcast. And by the way Sentack, I will say that I am interested in what you think and don't think you are going to make a fool of yourself. But I understand if you want to get it going a bit first. But don't forget to keep us posted on the URL when you are read so we can put it on the show.

And what is more that goes for anyone else out there who wants a shout out for the Blog on the show.

Julie



'Re: Blogging' by Jmo
Submitted on 2008-10-17 20:17:22 CST
@Sentak - I wouldn't hold off. Start posting and let people form their own opinions. The biggest fear I was able to overcome was the fear of worrying about what people thought of what I had to say. Don't make the blog to be a people pleaser. Make it as a way to express your thoughts and put them nto writing. I'm sure the vast majority of the readers just want to see what it is you have to say. I know that I for one look forward to reading your blog, regardless of if I agree with you or not.

@Julie A big thank you for the upcoming shout out. It means a lot and I feel completely honored to even get the slightest mention. Thank you again.

As a side note, I finished my Digital Download of WAR last night and plan to get it installed and patched first thing when I get home tonight. I look forward to seing you all in game on Phoenix Throne. (please excuse any typos as this is all being entered on my phone).

-Jmo (Jeremy)



'Guilds and Audio Files' by brogshan
Submitted on 2008-10-20 14:14:57 CST
Sister Julie, Sister Fran,

Great show as always. I just finished listening to episode 10 and I hope your guild recruitment went well on Saturday. If I had switched to Warhammer I'd definitely join, but I'm still holding on to AoC (Just goes to show how good the show is, I don't even play War yet listen every week).

A few episodes back you mentioned what program you used to create the podcast and that it was free. I thought it was mentioned in the comments but I can't seem to find it, could you tell me the name of it? Thanks.

-Shane



'Re: Guilds and Audio Files' by Jmo
Submitted on 2008-10-20 14:42:57 CST
Hey there Brogshan.

To answer your question, I think they program they said they used to create the Podcasts is Audacity. It is a free recording and audio editing software. You can download it here: http://audacity.sourceforge.net/ . Just make sure you get the LAME MP3 Encoder. You can find a link to it on Audacity's site.

As for the guild recruitment. I actually showed up at 7 on Saturday, and while I was waiting there, I went back and listened to the part of the show where they talked about it, only to realize that Fran said it was October 25th. So, I will be there again this coming Saturday. Hope to see everyone else there too! Feel free to look me up in game as well, I'm on Phoenix Throne, character is Maclore (my Bright Wizard) or Maclyon (my White Lion). These are constant names I use in almost any game I play, so if you see them in WoW or EQ, it's probably me.



'Thanks.... I think.....' by LealaTurkey
Submitted on 2008-10-20 20:09:15 CST
Hiya Ladies. I really enjoy your podcast, always something interesting to think about.

Thanks for giving the Epic Dolls a mini-shout out. Too bad it was during a WoW rant. I understand if you've had some problems with bad group experiences in WoW but that by no means is how every player acts. So please don't lump us all together. There's a big difference between me, my friends and guild and the WoW general forum kids.

Raiding in WoW is a class based grouping system. And when people are playing a hybrid class or whatever, you kind of have to ask them what their spec is so you know what role they'll best be able to fill. Its not a personal attack so don't take it that way. Raiding is a team sport, just like baseball or any other sport. You take your position, have your job and play the game by the rules in order to win. Right? The fun should be about working together and doing your part. Showing up on time, in the right gear and knowing how to play is no more than you would ask of anyone playing a team sport.

And frankly, WAR is as much of a class based grouping system as anything. So yes there will be times where you will struggle with questions about your spec. Eventually.

The beauty is though, if you don't want to play that way (in either game) you don't have to. Its your game and you can always play it your way. But don't get mad when people expect a tank to tank and a healer to heal. Its the nature of the beast.



'Generic Post Title' by Julie
Submitted on 2008-10-21 10:53:11 CST
@ Brogshan: Yes indeed the program that we use to record the show on is Audacity. The latest version seems to have alot of stability problems so we may switch to another program if that doesn't change in the future. And it must be good if you listen to the show but don't play the game. On the other hand I do that as well, and it is the reason I continue to listen to shows like "the instance". The guild? Well I still sort of suspect I will end up crying in my elven coffee, beer or whatever but we will see. And yes, I to played AoC for a long time. We even did a few shows about it for, shall we say "another website" but it was short lived as the heavy, heavy requirements to run the game smoothly eventually just started to drive me crazy...er...

@ JMO: yes indeed, I even had to check the calander myself a few times. She wanted to wait an extra week and get out two shows before said guild date. I look forward to seeing you there. Hopefully there will be more than just you, I and Fran.

@ Leala Turkey: Well your welcome...sort of. I started listening to your show before it came to Virgin Worlds. I think it was about the time you had a guest who was from a guild that was all women.

As to your comment "There's a big difference between me, my friends and guild and the WoW general forum kids." If you go back and listen to the show you will find I didn't even mention you adn your friends and guild and only mentioned Epic Dolls by saying I listen to it.

As to exclusionary atttitudes in Wow, they are not limited to raiding. Had the experiences we had been limited ot just us, or to just one guild that would be one thing. But when even Jeff Kaplan and Rob Pardo notice them and feel that it was tearing guilds apart (and indeed it was) then I know there is something going on. You will note I have also praised WoW and Rob Pardo as much as I have been a critic of them. Take a look at the "Article I wrote called "He's the Man" or the last article I wrote for Onlinegaming Radio that ended "hats off to Blizzard."

But the simple fact of the matter is that end game in WoW is broken. This is why I applaud the addition to the game of such as a "melee healer" that MUST be on the front lines and other game mechanics created by Mythic to protect gamers from ourselves adn each other. If things in the game were simply a matter of being on the team and "win one for the Gipper" that would also be fine. But by the time I left (and that was a few short weeks ago and my account is still active) it was very much a game mechanic used to support elitist and exclusionary attitudes. I have seen it over and over again and hand many a "sister can I talk to you" tells about it.

I would also note that if it were simply a matter of play the game you want to that would be different, but no matter where one goes in WoW these days it is very much a matter of "play the game the way we want you to or get out."

All that being said, WoW did for MMO gaming what no other game has. I have said it over and over again until I am sure people are sick of hearing it. It made gaming acceptable. It brought people to gaming from all walks of life, from children in their parents house to grandmothers in their own. It has truly gone a long way toward creating Marshal Maclhuans global village. It made the word polish something that developers can no longer ignore -and certainly not to there detriment if they do. We saw that with Age of Conan. Had the devs followed through with the rest of the game what t hey did with the first 20 levels they would have set the industry on its ear. But they didn't.

Will we see the whole "what's your spec" in Warhammer? It might on rare occasion creep in to a scenario (I have only seen it once and not directed at me). More common are the "armchair generals" who feel they no how to win and everyone else is stupid - and they proceed to tell them so. That is when the ignore key works really really well.

But Warhammer is first and foremost a game based on RvR - before anything else that is what it is. And that is not what I think, that is what Mark Jacobs thinks and said so. Read the latest issue of massive online gamer magazine where he said if there is a conflict between pve and rvr that pve will get sacrificed for the benefit of RvR.

Will you ever see "Whats your spec in the main point of the game RvR"

There is an easy answer to that:

Hell no.



'What's your spec?' by Gnova
Submitted on 2008-10-21 12:46:12 CST
Once people are more familiar with WAR, what each of the specs pros and cons are, and people start doing level cap content more heavily, then the questions will come. Just because it isn't happening yet doesn't mean it won't.
People min-max in mmos. They like to win and building groups with optimal specs is all part of that.

The question will always be asked more in WoW though because for a lot of classes different specs have entirely different roles. Is it a negative thing that you can choose to change roles and playstyle of your characters without leveling up an alt?
If I am LFG as a druid, why is it be unacceptable for someone to ask whether I am tank, heal, or dps specced when building a group? Not to do so would be foolish imo.



'Now a word from your sponsor' by Ceadrick
Submitted on 2008-10-21 12:46:59 CST
Just a few thoughts from Ceadrick the mad Dwarf.
Specing in WaR doesn't change your role in a group or Warband it just adds some flavor. You'll still be a dpser, healer or tank. WoW's specialization trees fundamentally change the character's class and pigeon holes you into a roll. Is this bad? No just confusing to many. Blizzard must have looked at EQ and said "how can we give them all these character classes without making them all. "Oh I know we can make each class three distinct classes by giving them these specialization trees, lets give the players control of how they play." Nice idea but confusing. One way to keep the spec stuff is to give each character a title of some sort such as Holy Paladin, or Dark Paladin for dps or Earth Paladin for a tank etc. Then you wouldn't get the "whats your spec crap" they would know at a glance Some may ask way do we need classes or specs, well in MMO's there's a thing called the holy trinity, a tank, a healer and crowd control/dps. In dungeons or raids this really comes into play. That's way people ask what's your spec. They want to know what job you'll be doing in the group. If they need a tank you cant come specced holy or dps etc. It won't work and you wont get far in the dungeon. This isn't the players fault it's the game design that's at fault. War doesn't have this problem because it's a pvp centric game. They don't have scripted events that call for the holy trinity, again its about game design. Will this change? I don't think this will anytime soon because players keep buying and paying for games like EQ2, WOW, LOTRO, AOC etc. If WAR had more dungeons I'm sure you would see the same type of design. I don't think there's anyway to get past this with this type of game design. If your happy with your roll you'll love WOW if not you'll enjoy a game like WaR.
Have fun all!

Now back to your show...



'Healz plz!' by Sentack
Submitted on 2008-10-21 13:39:30 CST
I just want to pipe in and mention that Warhammer does have dungeons, and having the right combination in those dungeons is considered to be vital for survival. You need a Defensive spec Tank. You need a Healer (Healer spec, optional but strongly desired) and you need lots of DPS. That being said, we're going to see requests about "What's your spec" In Warhammer. War doesn't change the formula enough to make issues with Specing a non-factor. Now, that being said, some of the classes force players to change some of their ideas about how some of the roles play. For instance, a Disciple needs to do melee attacks to gain healing power. So your options are to allow the Disciple to damage... Or not bring a Disciple at all.

Sadly, guess which will be the more frequent option for high end Raiding guilds?

Yup, better off not taking a Disciple then letting one try to melee. Disciples can be awesome healers, I don't doubt that. But being in the front line means the chance of getting aggro becoming a problem, drasticlly increases. WHere has Shamans and Zealots don't have this problem.

So the sad fact is, your class and spec options will play a part in group dynamics in War. It might be subtle at first, but eventually it's going to really express itself. Now, in Open Field PvP, usually things like healing spec, don't really pay THAT much of a role. Anyone who's played DAOC, knows that healers can be rare, and in general, when your running in a zerg to take a keep, healing rarely saves you if your in trouble anyways.

So we'll see how the future goes, but for the realm of PvE, I suspect it'll be more of the same...



'Fueling the fire...' by Julie
Submitted on 2008-10-21 14:40:49 CST
...of heated debate. That's what I seem to do best. In any case, the latest issue of Beckett Massive Online Gamer Magazine featured an article on with an interview by Mark Jacobs. Here is a quote:

Question: When it comes to balancing classes if a skikll in a particular class is ever too powerful in RvR but not in PvE, will th eskill be nerfed to balance out RvR at the cost of PvE?

Mark Jacobs: If we have a choice between having something weak in PvE or overpowered in RvR essentially, guess what...we would nerf PvE for a better RvR experience. RvR is the lifeblood of our game. RvR is what makes us stand apart from the crowd. With Camelot, we ha the best RvR, and arguably best PvP, game ever; our numbers and longevity certainly support that. Warhammer, being an RvR centered game, needs to, we hope, eclipse that. We cant do that if we're unwilling to sacrifce some PvE Happiness in order to ensure RvR h appiness. It's never easy, but if we have to put one up on the scrificial altar of game balance, then yes, pvE would go there.

Now in case anyone missed the main point of all this about specs here it is - plain and simple. If someone uses the whole "What's your spec" to justify exculsionary attitudes that shut out others out of gameplay...basically if the mentality develops, as it so often does, "We don't want you kid, go home" then it is wrong. There are real people behind the pixels and that is what matters. Otherwise, as Richard Gariott describes it, "WoW has become a system of inventory management" It boils down to this, in any game, ANY game if people use game mechanics of any sort to start treating people like dirt it's wrong - plain and simple.

Beyond that, no matter how long the game goes on the chances are you will never see "whats your spec" in RvR. PvE? Perhaps, but that isn't the issue here. On the average evening in a popular server you will find yourself very alone (but at least not completely). The emphasis of the game, as Mark Jacobs said is RvR.

The Night before last the order side made a concerted effort to take a keep our guild had won in Teir 3. It was a massive attack. They got the front gate down, the got the gate to the inner keep down and at that point no one, and I mean no one, cared that at least one of the three healers squirreled away on the staircase leading to the top floor of the keep was working her way up the "Gork" tree. I simply hit the wee little button that bumped my healing back up another 20% as I entered the battlefield and all that mattered was that I could rez the destruction players faster than the order could kill them.

Team play? You bet. Did the defense of the keep matter that only one of the three healers was anything close to a "pure" healer? Hell no.

And that is why, even if you see "whats your spec" in PvE, you wont see it in PvP. First, because it doesn't matter what someone thinks of your spec in PvP in Warhammer, because short of kicking someone out of a guild there isn't a blessed thing anyone can do about it, be it in Scenario or RvR and two...gameplay wise it just doesn't matter.



'Correction to the above' by Julie
Submitted on 2008-10-21 14:48:40 CST
On the average evening in a popular server you will find yourself very alone (but at least not completely) in PvE. The emphasis of the game, as Mark Jacobs said is RvR.


'Correction to the above' by Julie
Submitted on 2008-10-21 15:04:26 CST
On the average evening in a popular server you will find yourself very alone (but at least not completely) in PvE. The emphasis of the game, as Mark Jacobs said is RvR.


'Apple to apples....' by Gnova
Submitted on 2008-10-21 15:34:45 CST
You are comparing PvE WoW to RvR WAR on the "What's your spec?" question.
You can queue for BGs in WoW regardless of your spec, the same as you can in WAR.
When people start making premade groups with the sole purpose of grinding renown at level cap they will definately be interested in everyone's class and spec.

If they make the decision to balance RvR classes at the expense of boosting or nerfing classes in PvE guess what will happen, no one will play the nerfed PvE classes unless they PvP exclusively. SOE had the right idea with EQ2 when they separated spell and ability effects depending on whether they were used on PvP or PvE targets. Unfortunately, they didn't go far enough with balancing and turned the system into a mess.



'A valid point...however' by Julie
Submitted on 2008-10-21 17:09:28 CST
The "what's your spec" does indeed extend to PvP in WoW - in arenas where you must be on a team to participate. Yes, that is a whole "other kettle of fish" we need not get in to here.

Perhaps, then, a more appropriate comparison would be to describe WoW as PvE/Raiding with PvP tacked on and compare that to...

Warhammer that is RvR/PvP with Pve tacked on...

But the ultimate concern here is people - or at least it should be. Too often I see players put the pursuit of virtual goods above people. Instead of "lets get together some friends and go have fun" its "do you fit in?" I have one good friend who was put through so much anger and angst by her guild (she is a guild leader in another game) that she nearly had a stroke and died from the pressure she was being put through by people who forget there are human beings behind the game.

But Mythic has started down the right road in putting a great deal of flexibility in the design or character classes and getting away from some of the same tired old archetypes. From melee healers, to a tactics system that lets you switch out abilities with the click of a button to Morale abilities that can also be switched out. You can even switch out some of these abilities in the midst of battle.

Julie



'And might I add' by Julie
Submitted on 2008-10-21 17:14:48 CST
And Might I add that I think there is alot of truth in what Ceadrick said above. While I would tend to fault the gamers reaction to the game design rather than the game design itself I will whole heartedly agree on the following:

" If your happy with your roll you'll love WOW if not you'll enjoy a game like WaR." - Ceadrick

And what is more I think this is a fantastic subject for another "flame proof undies" section.



'Something I've Noticed About WAR Specs...' by Jmo
Submitted on 2008-10-21 20:36:55 CST
Ok. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I've noticed (at least with the characters I've played) that in WAR, the Specs don't really make the class. In WoW, your Spec greatly augments your abilities and pretty much locks you into a certain role. In WAR, this does not seem to be the case.

In WAR, your spec is just a set of abilities to add to your already great, and balanced, arsenal. From what I've noticed, the Spec trees in Warhammer only give you more abilities of a certain type, and do NOT effect your current abilities in any way. They do not make anything stronger or weaker, they just give you more of a certain type. Which would mean your heals still heal for just as much, but you may have a few more ways to heal. Or for my Bright Wizard, I can choose if I want to have more AoEs, more DD nukes, or more DoTs/CC. The thing is, I already have enough without any of the Specs to get by. They are not necessities, just nice additions to the classes.

Feel free to correct me if I'm seeing this wrong, but I do believe this is the way Mark Jacobs and the rest of Mythic planned it. By doing it this way, they are allowing for players to play how they want, without having to worry about how they are Specced. Thus removing really any mention of "What Spec are you?!"



'I'm not going to split hairs......' by LealaTurkey
Submitted on 2008-10-21 21:39:26 CST
The problem that you are having is with players, not the game. WoW end game is not broken just because there are a few jerks who are raiders. There are lots of people who enjoy instancing and raiding in WoW who are decent, nice people who are just there to have fun. I run a guild full of them. You cannot take a couple bad examples and label the entire game and its community as broken. It doesn't work that way.

And I am shocked to think that anyone honestly believes that when you get to WAR end game that things like what class, spec, gear and all the other stuff like that won't matter. Of course it will. The top end RVR guilds will be just as elitist and snobby as any top end guild in any MMO.

You can't judge a game or its community on its extremes. I "get" the whole WAR thing, I do. I like it. It's a good game. But if you are letting the jerks in the game ruin your experience, it will happen eventually in WAR just like it did in WoW because they will be there, always.

I just don't get the fascination and pleasure that people all over the blog-o-pod-o-sphere get out of nit picking at WoW, a game that I sincerely enjoy. Its not exclusive to your podcast or anything, just a trend I've noticed over quite some time. And its gotten much worse now with any comparison or mention of WoW and WAR.

And again, I really do like your podcast. I get a kick out of listening to you ladies and I really just hope that you can find a place where you are having fun, regardless of which game its in.



'Just for the record.' by Ceadrick
Submitted on 2008-10-22 00:28:01 CST
Just wanted to make sure that everyone understands that I have no problem with World of Warcraft. It's a great game. I have a couple of 70's and enjoy it greatly. I don't think end game is broken. It's just an exclusive club. My little brother is in a black temple raiding guild. I wanted in but I had to commit way more time then I could. Thats the problem with WoW I pay my 15 a month and cant see all the content. Not because I dont want to but because I cant commit the time. Is this broken? I dont think so just very exclusive. WaR is a really neat game that will allow me to see end game content because its more player driven. Doesnt matter how much time I have if Im logged on I can go help raid a keep or hopefully raid the destro city some day. So anyways I will be buying a couple of copies of Wraith when it comes out since my son also plays and I'll want to level my toons to 80 and all that jazz. I just understand I wont be doing the 25 mans, but lets hope I can see some of that 10 man content. Healer for higher!
On a side note I love the Epic Dolls show. BTW Wheres my Destro Dolls?? LOL!




'Show 11 Delayed' by Julie
Submitted on 2008-10-22 22:06:04 CST
Due to difficulties beyond our control (that little thing called "real life") plus a few technical difficulties the show will be delayed a day. Many of you may be used to seeing our show come out on Thursdays however the entire show is not "in the can" (or rather flash drive) yet. One section will need to be re-recorded. In the meantime we are going to look in to getting new software to record the next show yet due to the unstability of audacity (or at least the version we are using)

We apologize for the delay however this gives me a chance to announce a special guest on this next show. We will have as a guest the author of the Mystic Worlds website who has been kind enough to share her time with us.

See you Friday instead of Thursday and (for all those of you who may be interested in starting a guild on the Pheonix throne server on the order side, see you on the Pheonix throne server, in Altdorf by the flight master at 7:00 cst - I will be the elven shadow warrior named "Sister" crying in her beer.

Julie



'apologies and groups' by Julie
Submitted on 2008-10-24 10:25:57 CST
Our apologies for the delay of Show 11. It has been uploaded and when Brents failing health (judging from the report on the last Virgin Worlds by "Robotic Brent") allows you will have it.

In the mean time we have started a google group in anticipation of this Saturday. It is available at the following URL:

http://groups.google.com/group/noprisonersnomercy?hl=en

See you all on the Phoenix Throne Server of Warhammer, in Altdorf at the flight master at 7:00 pm central standard time. If you miss us send a tell to "Sister".




'apologies and groups' by Julie
Submitted on 2008-10-24 10:44:50 CST
Our apologies for the delay of Show 11. It has been uploaded and when Brents failing health (judging from the report on the last Virgin Worlds by "Robotic Brent") allows you will have it.

In the mean time we have started a google group in anticipation of this Saturday. It is available at the following URL:

http://groups.google.com/group/noprisonersnomercy?hl=en

See you all on the Phoenix Throne Server of Warhammer, in Altdorf at the flight master at 7:00 pm central standard time. If you miss us send a tell to "Sister".




'On to War....' by Sentack
Submitted on 2008-10-24 15:25:41 CST
I think Leala said it best when she pointed out that there's a lot of nit picking and finger pointing at WoW lately and I think it's not completely deserved. A lot of the issues people seem to have come down to community, and that a small group of players is irritating a larger group of players who have come to feel slighted in some way. Part of this is Blizzards fault, high end content that they designed, encourages players to grind it out for random and rare drops. This sort of reward system puts the incentive to grind out content, in hopes of gaining as much gear as possible for all their specialty toons. But it's also NOT completely Blizzards fault. Blizzard doesn't force the players to behave this way, and it's clear by the amount of people burnt out by this kind of game play, that it's pretty common and almost expected of some people. And that's not shocking because with 12 million subscriptions (With about only 4-5million being North American) it's GOING to happen. And players are eventually going to get drawn into it. Perhaps even with jubilation, as they finally start working for their top end gear.

The problem is, it's bad design tied in with bad player behavior, that creates a hostile gaming environment few people can stand for long without getting jaded. So what does this have to do with Warhammer? Not much really, but Warhammer has been the latest pillar these individuals have stood on, claiming it's superiority, and expecting greatness to happen. When in reality, I suspect the pillar will soon show it's cracks and start crumbling down. Claim it can never happen in PvP? I guess you haven't heard of Premades or what we called in DAOC, 8-Mans.

In general, it's a high horse mentality that's come from way too much of a good thing. And I suspect Warhammer will be a god sent to many of these people. In the end though, I think a lot of the early bitterness should be taken with a little honey, and people should learn to calm down, think about what they are trying to say, and enjoy themselves. Be it in War or WoW. As for me, I'll be seeing you sisters in a Scenario! Beware of my eldritch rain of dark magic!