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No Prisoners, No Mercy
Host: Julie Whitefeather & Frances Kosac
There comes a time, friends, when your favorite MMO ceases to sparkle, when even new videogames lose their luster, and the computer room becomes a prison; and all that is left are two gamers (who happen to be nuns) with a very large axe to grind. Come join Julie Whitefeather and Frances Kosac as they go to War - and along the way discuss the events of the week in the MMO industry.

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Related site: http://www.virginworlds.com/blog.php?cat=julie


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No Prisoners, No Mercy - Show 21
Wed, 21 Jan 2009 19:42:00 GMT [download/play]



Welcome to show 21, this week we have guests - Marisa Antonaya from the "skinnydipping in the RvR Lake" blog, and JMO from the "Notacast" podcast.
 
1. Mad as Hell
2. You need me on the wall - or do we
3. A few good warband leaders
4. Flameproof Undies
 
Marisa Antonaya's article about Warband Leadership can be found here:
JMO's Podcast "notacast" can be found on Itunes here:


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Episode 21 Discussion Thread

'T4 is decent.' by mystery323x
Submitted on 2009-01-22 00:41:19 CST
T4 to me has some good RvR action. The main problem is like everyone on Phoenix Throne seems to only want to take keeps if Noone is defending them. If they see like one defender the warband will say lets move to such and such. I think trying to Defend a keep is a ton of fun when people are willing to do it, but not many are. Also attacking a keep and have a HUGE battle in front of the keep is AWSOME but not too many seem to want to do it. And when i tell the Warband "Why doesnt anyone want to fight for the keep" they say something like its not worth it, no reward or I want to try locking the zone fast. I dont know why players will put Reward > Fun :(


'The WoW stuff' by Seritaph
Submitted on 2009-01-22 01:04:57 CST
In response to "huntards" and "retards rolling hunters," I think it's just easier for some people to throw around insults than to actually think about what they're trying to say and put it into intelligent conversation. In short they're probably lazy or incapable of doing so...or both. It bothers me too, and I don't even play a hunter.

In regard to ye olde raid content in WoW, I don't think it would take 40 people anymore to run Molten Core or Onyxia. I'm not sure how many, but with the extra levels, better equipment (even the stuff from questing) and talent reworks it should be much easier now. I'd just like to see more people interested in doing it.




'Generic Post Title' by Julie
Submitted on 2009-01-22 20:31:56 CST
@ mystery323x: As far as keep battles are concerned every time destruction side guild I am part of - when ever we lost a Tier 3 keep it was always in the wee hours of the morning. After all, if I was going to go to war with someone I would do it when they were least prepared and thus met the least resistance. While I will agree that attacking a keep is great fun, having your butt handed to you over and over again isnt.

@ Seritaph: It is too bad that Blizzard has paid so little attention to the "old world" content. One of the best designed instances in the game is one of the first on the alliance side...The Deadmines. So of Blizzards best work went into these instances and many people (myself included) have not seen all of them. Unfortunately there is no insentive for doing so beyond the occasional "complete-ist" view of achievements.

Julie



'Order plays hate challenge it seems.' by mystery323x
Submitted on 2009-01-22 22:33:38 CST
Order Players on Phoenix throne who are taking your keeps. I log on sometimes before work like around 10am est and thats when there seems to be guilds going to take keeps do to the fact there is no Destro on :(
I mean there is a line drawn when you are getting totally beat down and theres no chance so you have to stop. But a lot of players take that as dying maybe once. After i die around 10 times with no rez i think that we have no chance.

I think its pretty sad they do that and i know names of a lot of Order who don like to actually have a RvR battle. Not going to say them. I just resubbed to World of Warcraft and it has been a pretty good time, despite the TERRIBLE COMMUNITY pretty much ever server has. I mean there is good players on the server its just the Jerks, little kids, no lifes out number the Nice Mature players. I do not have the Wrath of the Lich king but i will be getting it soon.



'Terrible Community' by Julie
Submitted on 2009-01-22 23:33:25 CST
"...despite the TERRIBLE COMMUNITY pretty much ever server has. I mean there is good players on the server its just the Jerks, little kids, no lifes out number the Nice Mature players." - Mystery323x

In fact I would dare say that Mark Jacobs would at least agree that the players who cause the community conditions you have mentioned (though I tend to think they are in the minority amoung Warhammer players) are at least the most vocal. Those sort of players are why there are no "official forums" for Warhammer.

On the whole ever gaming community will have it's "un-silent minority" that make the loudest noise. Saddly, just because some one is young doesn't make them a jerk." The person with the "retards" comment we spoke about in the podcast is over 25 years old - "jerkdom" knows no age bracket.

Julie



'Terrible Community' by Julie
Submitted on 2009-01-23 00:15:15 CST
"...despite the TERRIBLE COMMUNITY pretty much ever server has. I mean there is good players on the server its just the Jerks, little kids, no lifes out number the Nice Mature players." - Mystery323x

In fact I would dare say that Mark Jacobs would at least agree that the players who cause the community conditions you have mentioned (though I tend to think they are in the minority amoung Warhammer players) are at least the most vocal. Those sort of players are why there are no "official forums" for Warhammer.

On the whole ever gaming community will have it's "un-silent minority" that make the loudest noise. Saddly, just because some one is young doesn't make them a jerk." The person with the "retards" comment we spoke about in the podcast is over 25 years old - "jerkdom" knows no age bracket.

Julie



'Kids' by mystery323x
Submitted on 2009-01-23 00:33:07 CST
"just because some one is young doesn't make them a jerk."

I wanted to change that but i already posted meant more like Adults acting like immature kids. I played Everquest 2 with tons of kids , most of the kids parents played the game. All of the kids i played with were really nice actually. Its just sometimes theres the no it all 13 year olds who are so great at the game, and they think they are the "Best".



'Caught up at last...' by bluekae
Submitted on 2009-01-23 16:26:26 CST
Just wanted to say "Good Job, Sisters!" I picked up episode one a couple of weeks ago and liked it so much that I listened to the whole series in chronological order ending with episode 21 today.

One suggestion, could you include your Gmail email address in the show notes? I'm never clear from listening if it's sisterjulie@gmail.com or noprisonersnomercy@gmail.com.

Keep up the good work.



'Caught up at last' by Julie
Submitted on 2009-01-23 17:15:38 CST
Thanks for the compliment - they mean alot to us. We are recording the next show this weekend so your suggestion is very timely. I guess the "how to contact us" isn't something I think about regularly. I will make sure I include it at the end of each show. Our email address is as follows:

noprisonersnomercy@gmail.com


Julie



'Bad Eggs' by Seritaph
Submitted on 2009-01-23 19:09:39 CST
Every game has them. But unless it has changed in the last month since I stopped playing, I didn't encounter to too many "jerks" in W.A.R. on the Phoenix Throne server. I played order side and most of the people I encountered for public quests and pvp were well mannered and polite. But then, the highest I got was Tier 2 before leaving for other reasons. I even got into a little role-play group in a contested area taking over key points on the landscape (imagine that...role-playing on a role-playing server), and it was fun.

For the time being, I've gone back to W.o.W. playing on the Alliance side, and I find the overall general behavior much worse.

And I agree that age is not always the best measure.



'Good in-game Voice' by mystery323x
Submitted on 2009-01-23 19:45:02 CST
I think EQ2s in-game voice system is great. More games should use something like there or DDO. I think EQ2s voice is made by some proffessional company that makes voice programs.


'Where have all the players gone?' by Julie
Submitted on 2009-01-23 20:09:07 CST
Basically the question from Paul aka "Thogomdon Hammerhand", in our community here (and our google group) was where have all the players gone in Warhammer?

What seems to be happening in War (and other games as well) is this:

Paul Barnett was very, very good Paul Barnett was at hyping the game. He continues to be entertaining in his video blogs. You may promise the players the sun the moon and the starts to go with them, but if you are too successful, you start to build up the game to where expectations are unrealistic. Before it came out Warhammer Online was viewed as the savior of all that was wrong with Videogames. Even saying that Warhammer and Warcraft looked alike sparked much heated debate (and a close look will show anyone that the resemblance is only cursory where the arts styles are concerned).

The problem arises if the developer of a game is not able to live up to a larger than life expectation. If you advertise massive scale battles, and epic scale pvp/rvr you had best be able to deliver.

The question becomes (and we will discuss this on the next show if anyone wants to add their two cents worth here or at noprisonersnomercy@gmail.com either by email or mp3:

Was Warhammer Online able to deliver what they promised? What happens when a game is no long the latest, hottest property on the market "" the "it" place to be? Age of Conan was once the "it" game, the game of the moment as well.

Julie



'No Dwarf Left Behind' by Seritaph
Submitted on 2009-01-23 20:53:08 CST
Initially I didn't listen to the part of the podcast about W.A.R. and successful warbands. But I went back and listened and I'm glad I did, because those points mentioned can be applied to any game and even small groups running an instance.

One thing I wanted to add to keeping the group together, is not leaving people behind. I don't know if it's been your experience, but I have seen people left alone because they've gone AFK (even if they've announced it), or gotten lost, or for some reason died and the group moves on. I'm sorry, do we need this person or not? If not, why'd you bother to invite them? Keep the group together, especially is someone dies and needs a rez or needs to run back. Left alone in a situation where a group is needed, chances are they will die again very quickly which is a good way to waste time waiting, lose people all together, or not achieve your goal because the person isn't there.



'No Dwarf Left Behind' by Seritaph
Submitted on 2009-01-23 21:00:44 CST
Initially I didn't listen to the part of the podcast about W.A.R. and successful warbands. But I went back and listened and I'm glad I did, because those points mentioned can be applied to any game and even small groups running an instance.

One thing I wanted to add to keeping the group together, is not leaving people behind. I don't know if it's been your experience, but I have seen people left alone because they've gone AFK (even if they've announced it), or gotten lost, or for some reason died and the group moves on. I'm sorry, do we need this person or not? If not, why'd you bother to invite them? Keep the group together, especially is someone dies and needs a rez or needs to run back. Left alone in a situation where a group is needed, chances are they will die again very quickly which is a good way to waste time waiting, lose people all together, or not achieve your goal because the person isn't there.



'No Dwarf Left Behind' by Julie
Submitted on 2009-01-23 22:16:08 CST
@ Seritaph

"But I went back and listened and I'm glad I did, because those points mentioned can be applied to any game and even small groups running an instance. " - Seritaph

I couldn't agree more - in fact the article by Maria is a real keeper for sure. I am surprised that your point was not touched on. After all, the whole impetus behind my having this section in the show as the last time I was in War and not only got left behind but got lead on a wild goose chase. Now on the face of it a raid leader or party leader may say "so what...that's only person". But eventually the one dwarf left behind becomes alot of dwarves left behind and a group, a guild, or even a game can get a nasty reputation. Not to mention the fact that the "huntard" you didn't want in a party one day may be the tankadin you try and get to tank for your party the next.

Julie



'@Seritaph' by Jmo
Submitted on 2009-01-24 05:38:37 CST
I also did not even think of that when we were discussing it. Talk about an important part to leave out. No man left behind!


'Some misconceptions, misunderstandings, rumor, and a bad rap.' by Kenar
Submitted on 2009-01-27 02:52:01 CST
I love the podcast first of all, no greater premise for a podcast than 2 nuns and WAR. However there are a couple misconceptions, misunderstandings, some rumors and such that have been stated on this show that I think gives the game a bad rap.

For example them touting RvR then not delivering, I think they did deliver. Now sure its not perfect, but then again show me 1 MMO that got endgame perfect at release and I will.... Oh right it hasnt and most likely will not happen. However the basic structure is there, a lot of the problem at 40 right now is the playerbase, and quite honestly I could heap a lot of the issues surrounding the game on their shoulders. That is not letting Mythic off the hook at all, because they have their work cut out for them, and there are bugs, issues, design flaws, etc. However there problem is made much worse by the worsening attitudes of MMO players in general. Basically the WoWing and/or Xbox liveing of the MMo playerbase.

Also T4 is a breeze to get through, T3 was the major major pain and challenge before the xp boosts they put int. T4 issues are mainly with scenarios, rank 40 need their own bracket, or the boost needs to go to 38 like previous brackets. Also some loot issues need to be worked out endgame, namely that 1 set of items you get from an instance you can run every 3 days compared to another that requires you take a fortress, yet both are comparable.

So while I love listening to you, I think it would be awesome if you guys got some one on who has played the endgame for a little bit and can define what is truly wrong with endgame. Also maybe talk about how horrible it was for them to get to 40 before the xp boosts and how it really isnt that hard to get through T4.

Other than that I do enjoy the show quite abit and look forward to the next one.



'About WoW.' by BurntSushi
Submitted on 2009-01-27 13:39:16 CST
Heya Julie and Fran, what server do you two play on in WoW? Since I really didn't get a chance to play with you two in WAR, well I thought that I might give it a try in WoW.

I have given up on WAR for now and thought that I would give WoW a try again.

I know you guys play Horde, but not sure what server.



'Breeze?' by Julie
Submitted on 2009-01-27 15:44:31 CST
@ Kenar: T4 a breeze to get through? Not from where the breeze was blowing on my server friend - whether from pve, pvp or rvr the only place it was blowing was in my face or up my habit. The proof of the pudding is in the eating and T4 was like eating horse dung...On the other hand you hated T3 and I had a great time in it and I thought IT was a fun level whether before or after the RVR incentives. Misunderstandings? I am glad you enjoy the show..however if I had a dollar for every time I have heard "I don't think you understand" I would have...well...alot of dollars. The issue here, as Fran and I will discuss in "Mad as Hell" show 22 that was uploaded this morning, was not merely that what was promised was not delievered but that by promising the sun, the moon and the stars to go with it Warhammer was put on such a high pedestal they set themselves up for a fall.


'Proud of Proudmore' by Julie
Submitted on 2009-01-27 15:48:00 CST
I can't speak for Fran but if anyone wishes to join me on a given night in World of Warcraft (when I am on, I also have real world duties and play other games as well) here are two characters I am on the most:

Brighde (Proudmore Server - alliance side)
Farthing (Proudmore Server - alliance side)

Both characters are part of a guild called "Thorns of Gold" which is part of a larger organization (about 14,0000 members strong) for gamers over 25 called "The older gamers"



'Breeze continued...' by Julie
Submitted on 2009-01-27 15:52:16 CST
@ Kenar: Continued from above...

I will certainly agree (and in fact said so earlier shows) that T4 needs a boost to 38, and more than stats needs to be boosted. As it sits right now pvp in T4 is BROKEN if you happen to be under level 35.

In the end, however, as I had said repeatedly, if I hated Warhammer altogether I would simply ban it from the No Prisoners No Mercy airwaves rather than vehemently insist that things be FIXED.

Julie Whitefeather



'Proud of Proudmore' by Julie
Submitted on 2009-01-27 16:59:02 CST
I can't speak for Fran but if anyone wishes to join me on a given night in World of Warcraft (when I am on, I also have real world duties and play other games as well) here are two characters I am on the most:

Brighde (Proudmore Server - alliance side)
Farthing (Proudmore Server - alliance side)

Both characters are part of a guild called "Thorns of Gold" which is part of a larger organization (about 14,0000 members strong) for gamers over 25 called "The older gamers"



'Breeze continued...' by Julie
Submitted on 2009-01-27 17:00:02 CST
@ Kenar: Continued from above...

I will certainly agree (and in fact said so earlier shows) that T4 needs a boost to 38, and more than stats needs to be boosted. As it sits right now pvp in T4 is BROKEN if you happen to be under level 35.

In the end, however, as I had said repeatedly, if I hated Warhammer altogether I would simply ban it from the No Prisoners No Mercy airwaves rather than vehemently insist that things be FIXED.

Julie Whitefeather