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No Prisoners, No Mercy
Host: Julie Whitefeather & Frances Kosac
There comes a time, friends, when your favorite MMO ceases to sparkle, when even new videogames lose their luster, and the computer room becomes a prison; and all that is left are two gamers (who happen to be nuns) with a very large axe to grind. Come join Julie Whitefeather and Frances Kosac as they go to War - and along the way discuss the events of the week in the MMO industry.

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Related site: http://www.virginworlds.com/blog.php?cat=julie


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No Prisoners, No Mercy - Show 28
Thu, 2 Apr 2009 17:20:00 GMT [download/play]



Welcome to No Prisoners, No Mercy Show 28I
 
Join us for over an hour and a half of news, laughter, gaming goodness and passion about gaming! This week we have short shorts, a discussion about streaming gaming technology - why it may not work and how it will if it can, and flame proof undies with more euphemisms for Dr. Manhatten's "Blue Meanie" than the show hosts even new existed in listener mail.
 
Julie and Fran

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Episode 28 Discussion Thread

'Must slow down.' by Yoh
Submitted on 2009-04-03 04:18:08 CST
I hindsight after listening to my comment being read out on the show, I really should slow down and make myself more clear, because even I don't know what the point I was trying to make was.

I wasn't saying that Jumpgate: Evolution and Startrek Online are going to be bad games, I just don't see them lasting in a niche market when they have EVE to compete with. Because in the long term, EVE with just not be beaten. Even if say Jumpgate does have better combat mechanics, there is very little stopping CCP and EVE from cannibalizing the said mechanics and incorporating them into itself.

In addition to this, there is just nothing else like EVE out there, period. (ie, corporate sabotage, realistic economy, meaningful politics, etc)
There is just nothing stopping it from changing, improving, and adding entirely new mechanics/content and improving its own faults, rather than just painting the turd another color like some games I will not mention.

One day in EVE, say 5-10 years down the line, I wouldn't be surprised if we have planetary flight, planetary conquest, and even FPS and/or RTS gameplay elements.

My point is, EVE has nowhere to go but up, one small step at a time.
I just wish other fantasy MMO development studios would emulate EVE's sandbox, evolutionary business model some more.
.
.
.
.
Or if CCP would just make a fantasy MMORPG.
Whatever works.



'Spell Check Wanted' by Yoh
Submitted on 2009-04-03 04:21:34 CST
Please note, I made a fair few spelling mistakes in my last comment, this is usual.


'CCP' by Token
Submitted on 2009-04-03 12:19:43 CST
@ Yoh
EVE is a massive con, and all the sci-fi fans are the marks. You can convince yourself anything is fun if you want to live the dream bad enough. I want a space mmo bad and a few years ago I thought maybe EVE might become the ultimate space experience. All these free expansions full of toys and systems and none of it really changes the same old boring game, the truth is that real fun is never coming to EVE, they are moving so unbelievably slowly around in circles. I'm not even sure their Python architecture will support a twitchy dog fighter.



'All about eve' by Julie
Submitted on 2009-04-03 14:03:51 CST
I will have to agree with Yoh here, in part. Certainly there is nothing out there like Eve Online when it comes to a player built economy. I think it is safe to say that Eve Online has the most sophisticated player built economy of any mmo out there - by proof of which I offer that CCP hired someone with a PHD in economics just to study it.

Beyond that, as I said in the last show, when they reach the point where you can get out of your ship they will definately get my buisiness back. Now I know they are not chomping at the bit for that, but I just thought I would put that out there. Now I will admit that they have been talking about the whole "getting out of your ship" expansion for awhile now but it is far from being vaporware. Basically what the good devs at ccp are undertaking is restructuring their entire game.

@ Token: In this particular case I will have to disagree with you. If there were safer routes through which to take freighters and safer places to mine rare ore (as in places where leagues of pirates won't blast me out of space) I might still be there. And when it comes to sheer pulse pounding, heart racing pvp, only Darkfall can match it.

Julie



'What else WoW needs.' by mikejl
Submitted on 2009-04-03 17:33:43 CST
I know there is a mod for quest tracking.. however I don't use mods so be nice if WoW copied that from WAR.
What else WoW needs:
- Player Housing (I know Bliz would do a kick arse job at them)
- Outfit system (ala LOTRO, EQ2) I love to keep the Dredmist lok on my Orc Warlock.
- Armor dyes (ala WAR)
- Wood working crafting .. hello Bliz? Where do all them bows come from?

If those were added I would go back to WoW.



'Surprised' by Julie
Submitted on 2009-04-03 18:33:45 CST
What surprises me the most is that there isn't a cosmetic clothing system of any sort as both Lotro and EQ2 have. On the one hand, so much time is, no doubt, spent on developing the art assets for the armor in WoW that you wouild think that the good devs at Activision/Blizzard would want their artwork around.

I for one would like to still have my "finkles lava dredger" from Molten Core as a cosmetic weapon.

I can, however, suppose what the flip side of this particular issue just might be. Since WoW endgame is so concentrated on gear as it is, not having a cosmetic clothing system of any pushes players in the direction of getting the latest, greatest "it" or "In" gear to sit around the bank in. Bank sitting is, after all, such a popular passtime in most mmo games.

If there was a cosmetic clothing system there would be no way for a player to hide that they didn't have the latest greatest gear.

My own take on it in EQ2 is not to use the cosmetic clothing system to wear "cool looking" gear but rather for my monk to keep the simple white "gi" that she started the game in and still be able to fight effectively while wearing it.

Julie



'Well Fran...' by Checksix
Submitted on 2009-04-03 20:01:54 CST
what can I say except don't beleive everything the sales guy tells you.


'Learn to Read' by Yoh
Submitted on 2009-04-03 21:10:04 CST
Token, thanks for putting words in my mouth....jackass.

I never, at any point said that EVE was 'fun'. It's full of stodgy and boring game mechanics. Combat, mining, missioning.... all boring as hell, thats why I'm not playing it at the minute. (playing Runes of Magic instead)

My point was, is that in the long term, EVE's infrastructure can grow and fundamentally change from the ground up. Meaning, while it may still have some bad mechanics, EVE will either A: work around the problem and make many small additions to improve the overall effectiveness of the mechanic (ie, skill system) or B: complete change said mechanic/content/feature into something better.

Even thou Jumpgate will have better say, combat, there is nothing stopping EVE from taking thous ideas, and using them to improve its own combat.
EVE will win out over time. End of story.


But never the least, while EVE is current a tad boring, its the people which make it fun because the system allows almost anything. There is just nothing like it out there.



'Well you know what they say...' by Julie
Submitted on 2009-04-03 22:18:20 CST
The proverbial "they" always says "one person's trash is another person's tresure" and we have a perfect example of that here. Unfortunately it seems that Letrange, who provided us with our initial Eve Online segment, judging by his last post in our google group, is so busy with Eve Online he hasn't got time for much else game wise.

It is true that there are some boring aspects to Eve. Mining in high sec space can be about as exciting as watching paint dry. But take that saming mining ship into low sec space and you have some spine tingling excitement.

It's all how you approach the game.

Julie



'EVE stealing ideas' by Token
Submitted on 2009-04-04 03:05:55 CST
I'm not really a risk taker. I'll happily die in PvP trying to achieve some sort of goal if I'm enjoying the mechanics of it, but ever present risk being liberally applied like some wonder spice, nah it's a shortcut. You can add a wager to absolutely any activity to make life more interesting, it doesn't prove EVE itself is a well designed and fun game to play.


'Talk about the kettle calling the pot black' by Yoh
Submitted on 2009-04-04 03:29:47 CST
First, all MMORPG's steal ideas, it comes with the territory. You can't own ideas.

Risk does make things more exciting, but its the human element that make EVE great.
You can have the best gear in the world, you will still get destroyed by a more skilled pilot. (personal skill, not skill points)
It's the open, sandbox nature that makes EVE good, rather than shallow, gear centric MMO's.
You value things more if you know you can lose it.

Besides, equipment in EVE isn't really that important in the grand scheme of things.
But what EVE is in desperate need of, is more instant gratification. It has great long term benefit, but short term could be better.


In a whole thou, pretty much every MMO out there has 1 click, button mushing combat and endless grind. So don't act like EVE's the only one.



'Next time on No Prisoners, No Mercy' by Julie
Submitted on 2009-04-06 15:16:05 CST
I have been considering getting back into Eve Online again. I don't know if I can even get my old characters back or if I have to start over. However something caught my eye in the news this week and it is a woman who has started a rescue service for those stranded by collapsed wormholes.

I would like to try and get the founder of the service on the air but I am not sure if I can even find a way to contact her.

I do know that alot of you are starting to play Eve Online again and I think this would be the perfect time to talk about it.

So:

Why did you play Eve Online in the first place? What brought you back? Are you back as a "tourist" because you are bored with your regular game? Do you have a regular game?

What say you all?



'Next time on No Prisoners, No Mercy' by Julie
Submitted on 2009-04-06 15:21:24 CST
I have been considering getting back into Eve Online again. I don't know if I can even get my old characters back or if I have to start over. However something caught my eye in the news this week and it is a woman who has started a rescue service for those stranded by collapsed wormholes.

I would like to try and get the founder of the service on the air but I am not sure if I can even find a way to contact her.

I do know that alot of you are starting to play Eve Online again and I think this would be the perfect time to talk about it.

So:

Why did you play Eve Online in the first place? What brought you back? Are you back as a "tourist" because you are bored with your regular game? Do you have a regular game?

What say you all?



'You MUST read this article' by Julie
Submitted on 2009-04-11 16:28:37 CST
Show number 29 has been uploaded and I am sure will be out there on line soon.

Even if you don't listen to the show you MUST read this article over at the Gamers With Jobs website about how Time/Warner is trying to stick it to us all - if you play games you WILL be affected.

The Meter is Running can be found here:
http://www.gamerswithjobs.com/node/44497

We will discuss this article, eve online and more....



'WAR Underground' by Xerb
Submitted on 2009-04-13 23:10:17 CST
I would like to make contact with someone about the podcast. Could you contact me via email? xerb.painhunter@warunderground.com


'War What?' by Julie
Submitted on 2009-04-13 23:29:32 CST
I am not sure what the War Underground is. However you, or any other listener can reach us a "noprisonersnomercy@gmail.com".

Julie