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No Prisoners, No Mercy
Host: Julie Whitefeather & Frances Kosac
There comes a time, friends, when your favorite MMO ceases to sparkle, when even new videogames lose their luster, and the computer room becomes a prison; and all that is left are two gamers (who happen to be nuns) with a very large axe to grind. Come join Julie Whitefeather and Frances Kosac as they go to War - and along the way discuss the events of the week in the MMO industry.

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Related site: http://www.virginworlds.com/blog.php?cat=julie


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No Prisoners, No Mercy - Show 29
Sat, 11 Apr 2009 20:32:00 GMT [download/play]



Welcome to show 29!
 
Come join the sisters as the broadcast from their "Sweet Home Chicago" and in the process tell Time/Warner that "usually they get kissed first."  This week we discuss all the news of the week that's fit to print and gripe about (or praise in the case of Rob Pardo - we're not worthy). And before it is all through we will talk about Eve and a new rescue service for those voyagers lost in W-Space.
 
Even if you don't listen to the show (and why not if you don't) you MUST read this incredibly important article on how Time/Warner is trying to stick it to us all:
 
The Meter is Running can be found here: http://www.gamerswithjobs.com/node/44497


-Julie and Fran


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Episode 29 Discussion Thread

'Didn't do your research, did you?' by AnonymousX
Submitted on 2009-04-13 15:28:21 CST
You have got to be kidding. You seem to have been completely taken in by giskards rantings, and seem to think that HIS behavior is acceptable? Thought the "press" was supposed to be impartial? Guess not.


'Don't know, don't care' by Julie
Submitted on 2009-04-13 16:01:28 CST
First I don't know if "AnonymousX" is the same person as the "anonymous" on Giskard's forums.

Whether it is or not, here it is:

I don't know what went on "guild drama" wise in some other forum in some other place. I don't know. I don't care. You have, after all, never been brave enough to put a name to your numerous attacks. I took this public in a very public way for one reason only...

I am tired of forum trolls who feel it is there right to affect the lives of others by taking up the valuable time of talented individuals who are trying to share their creativity. I will not tolerate the behavior of forum trolls who seperate us all from communication with the talented members of the gaming community because instead they have to go deal with juvenile behavior.

Whether you are the "anon" in the forums or not is beyond the point.

You do NOT have the right to basically launch denail of service attacks on ANYONES forums - it is against the law. It was done on a small scale here. Were it done on a larger scale and in a larger forum you would be in jail.

And as grandmother used to say...If you can't take the heat, get out of the kitchen.

Julie Whitefeather



'And just in case there is any doubt' by Julie
Submitted on 2009-04-13 16:37:50 CST
And let me make a pointed statement here to the public NOT ADDRESSED TO ANY ONE PARTICULAR INDIVIDUAL...

If there is a doubt by any member of the public about how serious states take laws that have to do with "cyber-crimes" here is an example (see below) Note all, the word below that says "Felony".


Illinois
720 ILCS 5/12-7.5
Sec. 12-7.5. Cyberstalking.

a.A person commits cyberstalking when he or she, knowingly and without lawful justification, on at least 2 separate occasions, harasses another person through the use of electronic communication and:

1.at any time transmits a threat of immediate or future bodily harm, sexual assault, confinement, or restraint and the threat is directed towards that person or a family member of that person, or
2. places that person or a family member of that person in reasonable apprehension of immediate or future bodily harm, sexual assault, confinement, or restraint.
b. As used in this Section:
"Harass" means to engage in a knowing and willful course of conduct directed at a specific person that alarms, torments, or terrorizes that person.
"Electronic communication" means any transfer of signs, signals, writings, sounds, data, or intelligence of any nature transmitted in whole or in part by a wire, radio, electronmagnetic, photoelectric, or photo-optical system.
"Electronic communication" includes transmissions by a computer through the Internet to another computer.
c. Sentence. Cyberstalking is a Class 4 felony. A second or subsequent conviction for cyberstalking is a Class 3 felony.
720 ILCS 135/0.01
Sec. 0.01. Short title. This Act may be cited as the Harassing and Obscene Communications Act.(Source: P.A. 90-578, eff. 6-1-98.)
Sec. 1-2. Harassment through electronic communications.
a. Harassment through electronic communications is the use of electronic communication for any of the following purposes:
1. Making any comment, request, suggestion or proposal which is obscene with an intent to offend;
2. Interrupting, with the intent to harass, the telephone service or the electronic communication service of any person;
3. Transmitting to any person, with the intent to harass and regardless of whether the communication is read in its entirety or at all, any file, document, or other communication which prevents that person from using his or her telephone service or electronic communications device;
3.1 Transmitting an electronic communication or knowingly inducing a person to transmit an electronic communication for the purpose of harassing another person who is under 13 years of age, regardless of whether the person under 13 years of age consents to the harassment, if the defendant is at least 16 years of age at the time of the commission of the offense;
4. Threatening injury to the person or to the property of the person to whom an electronic communication is directed or to any of his or her family or household members; or
5. Knowingly permitting any electronic communications device to be used for any of the purposes mentioned in this subsection (a).
b. As used in this Act:
1. "Electronic communication" means any transfer of signs, signals, writings, images, sounds, data or intelligence of any nature transmitted in whole or in part by a wire, radio, electromagnetic, photoelectric or photo-optical system.
2. "Family or household member" includes spouses, former spouses, parents, children, stepchildren and other persons related by blood or by present or prior marriage, persons who share or formerly shared a common dwelling, persons who have or allegedly share a blood relationship through a child, persons who have or have had a dating or engagement relationship, and persons with disabilities and their personal assistants. For purposes of this Act, neither a casual acquaintanceship nor ordinary fraternization between 2 individuals in business or social contexts shall be deemed to constitute a dating relationship.
(720 ILCS 135/1-3)
Sec. 1-3. Evidence inference. Evidence that a defendant made additional telephone calls or engaged in additional electronic communications after having been requested by a named complainant or by a family or household member of the complainant to stop may be considered as evidence of an intent to harass unless disproved by evidence to the contrary.




'The Seeds of doubt.' by AnonymousX
Submitted on 2009-04-13 17:20:29 CST
So, you admit to only hearing one side of the story, yet decide to crusade on Giskards behalf? Whatever happened to impartiality? Getting both sides of the story before passing judgement? It is a crime to voice my views on a public forum, in dissent of what Giskard is spreading, to wit: lies and deceit? Where would be a better place than at the source? Considering that is the only place where it is even possible to have any form of communication with him at all, my options are limited.

Seems you think a troll coming to a forum is bad, yet, a troll running a forum is acceptable. At one point, I had considered the idea of an open debate a possibility, but, as I can see that it would be heavily biased against me, I will choose not to participate.

You should really get to know who you are defending, before sticking your neck out on the line. Read some of the threads on his forum, they are all right there for you to see. Try and verify his claims. You will find that you cannot. There is more to the story than you are aware of, and simply stating that you don't care about the history here, doesn't do anything for your credibility.

The legal definition is interesting, but, I would point you to a key phrase,

without lawful justification

You don't think that defamation, or libel are justification? And not just of individuals, but, a whole community. Or, is it okay for Giskard to say whatever he wants, but, it is harrassment when someone calls him on it?



'Me = a little appaled' by Akely
Submitted on 2009-04-13 17:26:51 CST
I'm quite frankly a bit tired of the flame wars that this place gets from time to time. Not that I'm much for the "can't we all get along?" idea. Opinions do differ, and that usually is a vehicle to inspiring insights. Usually.

But I think the tempers rise higher with every flame added. Bah! This place needs forums.



'Interesting...' by Jmo
Submitted on 2009-04-13 18:39:27 CST
It seems there are two very different sides to an argument being put out there for all to see. As someone who has nothing but an outsider's perspective of things, I see two pots calling the Kettle black. So, that being the case, would Griskard and AnonymousX be willing to sit down an have a moderated debate? If both agreean I'd be more than willing to facilitate as an unbiased host. I think this would be an interesting Podcast idea if parties are willing to paricipate.


'Like a poor marksman' by Julie
Submitted on 2009-04-13 18:41:37 CST
Like a poor marksman "anonymousx" you have missed the point. This is not the New York Times, it is not Time Magazine. This is a podcast that accompanies a column I write. There is no impartiality nor any promise of such.

What about the phrase "I don't know and I don't care" in regard to your little guild drama was unclear? I don't know what anyone had to say about anyone else, whether real or imagined, at any point in the past.

I care that my rights and the rights of other gamers are being walked all over and deficated on. No one has the right to launch a denial of service attack, nor harrasement in an attempt to shut down a server. That is against the law - period.

But what is important here is a much larger issue...

*raps ruler on desk*

The conduct inquestion regards attacks that reach the point they shut down servers and affect the ability of talented individuals to function. This issue reaches such a point when talented individuals like Mark Jacobs has to have second thoughts about having official forums for concern over the personal attacks on employees of Mythic Entertainment.

This isn't the New York Times, this isn't Sparta - this "NO PRISONERS, NO MERCY."





'The idea was already presented' by Julie
Submitted on 2009-04-13 18:46:56 CST
@ JMO.

Actually, the idea was already discussed and all parties did not wish to participate. As for myself, I don't know what was taken place between the two individuals and I don't care. What I do care about are denial of service attacks, even if on a small scale.



'@Julie' by Jmo
Submitted on 2009-04-13 19:36:04 CST
That's to bad. I always love a good debate.
As for your other statement. You are 110% correct. DOS attacks against a site are nothing but acts of cowardice by someone who is too afraid to confront someone face to face.

On a side note, I'd really appreciate your input on my topic on the Google group.

Keep up the good work Sisters.



'And another Giskardite is born.' by AnonymousX
Submitted on 2009-04-13 19:40:23 CST
Don't know, and dont care that Giskard is breaking laws himself? How does it feel to be defending a criminal? Perhaps if you weren't so infatuated with Giskard, you could see the truth.

So, you are just a crusader, looking for a cause, and perhaps some free publicity then? There are many talented individuals out there, that have left the various communities due to flamers, or, just people with a different opinion of their work. Perhaps you should pick up their cause as well.

And what denial of service attack? I don't see any servers that have been shut down, you still seem to be able to post on his forums just fine. Are you sure you know what you are talking about there?

In any case, I can see that you have already become a yet another one of Giskards sheep, so, I won't trouble you further.



'One last thought.' by AnonymousX
Submitted on 2009-04-13 19:42:12 CST
The only person denying service at giskards site, is giskard.


'Generic Post Title' by Julie
Submitted on 2009-04-13 19:51:18 CST
@ JMO: you bet, sorry for the oversite in regard to your request for input. I will correct that right now.


'@Julie' by Jmo
Submitted on 2009-04-13 20:04:38 CST
That's to bad. I always love a good debate.
As for your other statement. You are 110% correct. DOS attacks against a site are nothing but acts of cowardice by someone who is too afraid to confront someone face to face.

On a side note, I'd really appreciate your input on my topic on the Google group.

Keep up the good work Sisters.



'oops' by Jmo
Submitted on 2009-04-13 20:07:17 CST
Grr...stupid repost bug. Since I'm on my phone, I just refreshed the page. =p


'Your Request' by Julie
Submitted on 2009-04-13 20:19:10 CST
@JMO
Your request has been fulfilled...check your email. I hope it helps. If not...ignore me.

Julie



'Thanks!' by Jmo
Submitted on 2009-04-13 20:39:30 CST
Appreciate it Sister. I will check it as soon as I get home. About to get into busy time here at work.


'EVE' by Pufnstuf
Submitted on 2009-04-13 21:22:53 CST
I loved your discussion on EVE. My brother plays EVE now to a point of crazy (he is dual boxing) and I agree the learning curve is too steep.

Have you tried Atlantica Online or any other free games? I would love Fran's perspective on the art forms of some of these games too.



'Eve Online' by Julie
Submitted on 2009-04-13 21:49:14 CST
@ Pufnstuf: these days Fran is so busy I am lucky to get enough of her time to do a show. I wil, however, mention it to her tonight at dinner. If you are looking for an artist's viewpoint she is the person for it.

As for myself the Free to Play game that I played for some time was Voyage Century. The only reason I quit it was because it got too grindy (even compared to Eve Online if that is possible).

I am getting back into the swing of things where Eve Online is concerned. I even did my most recent article about it called "circling the drain." I am sure we will have eve content on future shows. I am trying to convince someone (a particular someone) to be a guest and talk about faction warfare in a future show.



'WAR Underground' by Xerb
Submitted on 2009-04-13 23:36:45 CST
It seems my comment may have been deleted. I was hoping to make contact with someone about the podcast. I would like to see if you'd be willing to go check out www.warunderground.com and see what I've done over there. I have featured podcasting and have included your show in a sudo internet radio show over there.

For more information about the site, please contact me at xerb.painhunter@warunderground.com.



'WAR Underground' by Xerb
Submitted on 2009-04-14 00:00:33 CST
It seems my comment may have been deleted. I was hoping to make contact with someone about the podcast. I would like to see if you'd be willing to go check out www.warunderground.com and see what I've done over there. I have featured podcasting and have included your show in a sudo internet radio show over there.

For more information about the site, please contact me at xerb.painhunter@warunderground.com.



'Email address' by Julie
Submitted on 2009-04-14 03:37:07 CST
The email address for the No Prisoners, No Mercy podcast is as follows:

noprisonersnomercy@gmail.com



'Keep it up!' by Celestian
Submitted on 2009-04-14 20:42:41 CST
I dunno why anyone would bother even trying to carry on a conversation with someone using the name anonymous. Someone hiding behind a curtain throwing bits of bullsh*t around and then complaining when s/he thinks he's wrong. If they truely believed what they said they wouldn't hide out.

Great show, keep up the laughs and giggles.



'Next time on No Prisoners, No Mercy' by Julie
Submitted on 2009-04-14 22:05:20 CST
@ Celestian: thanks for the compliment they mean alot to us.

Next show:

The main topics for the next show will be Eve Online. Two guests return to the show to share their knowledge with us.

Saylah from Mystic Worlds and Gamer's Fiction Podcast will talk about Salvaging - which she assures me is a casual gamers key to printing isk (in game currency)

Our wayward report Letrange returns, but this time to center stage to instruct us all in something I am looking forward to learning about: Faction Warfare.

If you have questions for either guest submit them to the following email address or post them here before 4:00 pm cst April 15th.

The show's email address is as follows:

noprisonersnomercy@gmail.com



'I agree and eve mineing' by CjDidge
Submitted on 2009-04-14 22:06:13 CST
I agree with all the posts about anonymous, as someone who doesn't know either side, some evidence wouldn't go amiss for a flame to be beleived as credible.

About mineing in eve it is still possible but you do need to travel a bit further away from the trade hubs and then transport the goods back, and i understand this can be difficult. But there are still places with roids available, try a system that has no stations.



'PS' by CjDidge
Submitted on 2009-04-14 22:07:06 CST
buy the way you have the best show on virgin worlds.


'Don't feed the trolls.' by SwollenBeef
Submitted on 2009-04-15 02:37:36 CST
Just by acknowledging the troll you promote their behavior. Best to just ignore them and never take the bait. funny thing, if you ignore it, it WILL go away.



second.

http://blog.wired.com/business/2009/04/congressman-to.html



'thanks much' by Julie
Submitted on 2009-04-15 11:26:22 CST
Thanks much for the compliment CjDidge. As far as mining is concerned I am just starting back and I am limiting my travels 10 .5 space for the most part where my mining is concerned. I may try a system with no stations but none of them near my home base are like that and above .5

And yes, Beef, I did actually suggest the whole shunning thing but that requires the co-ooperation of everyone involved and that is a difficult thing to do.

And thanks for the link...I will make sure Giskard gets it.

Julie



'show guests' by Julie
Submitted on 2009-04-15 18:00:24 CST
On show 31 we are pleased to announce that our guest will be Mr. Colin Campbell. Mr. Campbell is the former editor of Edge-Online.com, and is currently one of the creative minds at Gamebizblog.com.

On show 30: Letrange's discussion on Faction Warfare in Eve Online has been delay until this weekend due to a scheduling conflict on our part.




'Curious package' by Julie
Submitted on 2009-04-15 18:27:22 CST
We just received a curious package. It did have a return address but no indication of why it was sent to us...The complete works of Thomas Payne:

A message perhaps?

A gift?

Fanmail from some flounder?



'Colin' by Token
Submitted on 2009-04-15 19:09:03 CST
That is huge news about Colin Campbell, he is the genuine article. I hope you have a chance to relay my thanks for Game Theory, still the best podcast out there even in undeath. I wish the circumstances of it ending were made more clear.


'To julie' by giskard
Submitted on 2009-04-20 01:37:19 CST
Hi Julie

Just letting you know the new website opened, you can get to it by following the link on the modding 4 fun news page. Or reading the announcement in the OLD forum.

All the best.



'To giskard' by Julie
Submitted on 2009-04-20 14:26:31 CST
I would very much enjoy being part of your modding community again, and the new site does look great, but the registration for the site is....

broken,
borken,
brokne