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No Prisoners, No Mercy
Host: Julie Whitefeather & Frances Kosac
There comes a time, friends, when your favorite MMO ceases to sparkle, when even new videogames lose their luster, and the computer room becomes a prison; and all that is left are two gamers (who happen to be nuns) with a very large axe to grind. Come join Julie Whitefeather and Frances Kosac as they go to War - and along the way discuss the events of the week in the MMO industry.

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Related site: http://www.virginworlds.com/blog.php?cat=julie


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No Prisoners, No Mercy - Show 30
Mon, 27 Apr 2009 06:05:00 GMT [download/play]



Welcome to show 30!
 
This week we have a guest - Saylah from Mystic Worlds.  Saylah, Fran and I talk about why Time/Warner recently told us all "pucker up baby"; and how Senator Chuck Schumer told Time/Waner to "kiss off". In our featured story, Saylah shares with us all her Eve Online secret: "The casual players license to print isk."  Fran and I have a tribute to Dave Arneson and more!
 
See you online,
 
Julie Whitefeather

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Episode 30 Discussion Thread

'Listening now but...' by Checksix
Submitted on 2009-04-27 13:18:26 CST
Consider dropping Time Warner cable internet and possible move to DSL from the local phone company.

You've got to vote with your dollars.

Just a thought.

Checksix



'Personally...' by Julie
Submitted on 2009-04-27 14:36:52 CST
Personally we don't have time/warner. But we do vote with our dollars. We recently told the cable company to come and take out their phone lines and their cable. We had a birthday part this weekend for someone we know who just turned 95. One of the many guests wanted to go down to our family room and watch a baseball game. We tried to explain to him that he couldn't because the t.v. set doesn't pick up any signals - it only plays dvds. He was aghast that we don't have t.v.

And frankly I don't miss it.

Also about salvaging. I have noticed that no matter how high or low your salvaging score is, if you just wait long enough - you may get some "your salvaging has failed this time" messages but if you are patient it WILL succeed everytime.

And to confirm what Saylah said from my first had experience. Despite what some guides claim that you MUST loot the wreck first that is NOT TRUE. Also, despite what some guides claim, you can salvage an abandoned wreck belonging to someone else without problems, you just can't loot it. I am aware of this, because when I mine out in .5 sec space as I often do, I and other miners will send our drones after the npc pirates but when I am busy filling up 9,000 cubic meters of space with ore I am not about to busy myself with the wreck. I have three high slots for three strip miners and I am not about to waste the third slot on a salvager nor waste the cargo space on modules.

And so, since miners seem to attract npc pirates aplenty you will probably find alot of abandoned wrecks in popular mining areas.

Julie



'Thanks for having me...' by Saylah
Submitted on 2009-04-27 22:51:43 CST
I had a great time as usual. Thanks for inviting me to come chat. For the salvaging it's not that you must, it was that you should salvage first. The reasoning was that you have better chance of salvaging better items if you do so before looting. I still don't know if that's true or not. Yep, you can salvage in low sec with no repercussions from Concord. The reason it's suggested that you not do that is the player might get upset. If they already have low security status, they might think nothing of blowing you up in retaliation if they were coming to salvage their own ship. It was just advice so as not to make enemies in low sec. :-)

Rest of the show was great. Speak to you soon!



'Salvaging in W-space' by Yoh
Submitted on 2009-04-28 01:26:35 CST
It is worth noting that the new w-space NPC the sleepers, can be salvaged as well. And from my understanding, its the only way to get the new components that a needed to create the tech3 ships.

i.e: there is a hell of alot of money in it.

Also, from my understanding, it doesn't particularly matter if you salvage before or after looting. Loot depends at the moment of destruction of that ship. If you salvage first, and if there is loot, it drops into a can.

You can make a huge amount of money salvaging. And if you want to dedicate yourself to it, use a destroyer. With 8 high slots, good speed, cargo and cost, they can salvage like you wouldn't believe. 4 salvages + 4 tractor beams = space vacuum cleaner.



'Salvaging in W-space' by Yoh
Submitted on 2009-04-28 02:27:42 CST
It is worth noting that the new w-space NPC the sleepers, can be salvaged as well. And from my understanding, its the only way to get the new components that a needed to create the tech3 ships.

i.e: there is a hell of alot of money in it.

Also, from my understanding, it doesn't particularly matter if you salvage before or after looting. Loot depends at the moment of destruction of that ship. If you salvage first, and if there is loot, it drops into a can.

You can make a huge amount of money salvaging. And if you want to dedicate yourself to it, use a destroyer. With 8 high slots, good speed, cargo and cost, they can salvage like you wouldn't believe. 4 salvages + 4 tractor beams = space vacuum cleaner.



'Hmmm...' by Seritaph
Submitted on 2009-04-28 15:08:41 CST
All this talk about Eve makes me want to check it out. I tried it once, in beta, and I was amazed back then but I found it difficult to wrap my head around it, and felt more lost than I did when I first played EQ. As I've gotten older, and play more casually, I wonder if Eve is the right game for me? I'm not much into PVP either, unless it serves a purpose and is fun (like Warhammer). If it's just a gank-fest from overpowered veterans, then I probably wouldn't be interested as much. Still might be fun to check it out again after all this time.


'Salvaging Book' by lucaskiker
Submitted on 2009-04-28 19:32:45 CST
I just finished listening to this ep and thought I would bring something up about the salvaging skill book. If you do the new tutorials, one mission gives the skill book as a reward. That will save you some isk right there. All you will need to pick up is the salvaging module and you're good to go.


'Have questions? We have answers!' by Bloodlet
Submitted on 2009-04-28 23:25:22 CST
I've been a long time listener of this post cast way back when WOW was the main topic, then it was Warhammer (I played Warhammer for a bit back you when were too), then back to WOW. All the way loaded with insightful commentary, news and whole bellied lols (hows the new puppy's gas latley?)!

Its cool to see you back into EVE Julie as I have loved the game for over two years now. As I listen to this podcast I am overwhelmed with the urge to extend my helping hand out to a fellow gammer. I am CEO of a WSPACE focused corp and I would like to invite you to our public chat room for you to hang out in and learn form our valued members. I'm not solely looking to recruit per say, but feel free to check us out at http://eternum-pariah.com/ for more info.

Look forward to chatting with you soon.

Fly safe 0/



'A Moa?!?!?!?!?!?!?!' by VanSturm
Submitted on 2009-04-29 07:52:56 CST
Why would you do that to yourself? I flew one once. Luckily I'd borrowed it from a friend so could give it back and didn't waste any isk on the thing!

Anyway, a little bit more info on how to salvage (the process). If you bookmark a wreck in each deadspace "room" of a mission, you can then complete the mission. When you return to your bookmarks, the wrecks are still there, but there is no "deadspace", so you can take any ship you like, use Microwarp Drives etc.

Destroyers make great salvage ships (especially the Coercer (Amarr Destroyer)) as they have 8 high slots, yet are cheap. After fitting your 4 tractors and salvagers, and your low slots filled with expanded cargos, you have a fairly cheap (about 5 milion isk) salvage ship.

If you find you have to much loot / salvage for the destroyer, you can jettison a can (your in the middle of nowhere, so no one is going to happen past and steal it) and come back later with a hauler to collect (remember to bookmark your can too!).

Btw, a Hauler's a poor salvage ship, as they do not have the high slots for multiple salvagers / tractor beams, even though they do have cabernous holds.

Great show as always,

Van Sturm



'Moa :(' by VanSturm
Submitted on 2009-04-29 08:01:20 CST
That said, I did enjoy flying a railgun fitted Ferox for a while. Great battlecruiser. Strange as the "Railox" is basically an overgrown Moa!

Van Sturm



'No TV' by giskard
Submitted on 2009-04-29 23:11:47 CST
Thought for you Julie.

You do not have TV and you make Pod Casts, I have TV but do not watch it much and I make mods.....do you see a partner here :)



'Type' by giskard
Submitted on 2009-04-29 23:12:21 CST
Pattern here...not partner


'@Luca - That's a HUGE bonus...' by Saylah
Submitted on 2009-04-30 00:43:38 CST
Maybe the sisters can append that to a show. I'm not sure how many people read thru all the comments. A tutorial that hands out the Salvaging skill book is awesome and saves A LOT OF ISK.

@Van - I've meant to convert over to a destroyer myself. But I had spare Vexors sitting around and have used them. I definitely should get into a Destroyer when I come back for 'real".



'The root of all evil' by Julie
Submitted on 2009-04-30 11:39:29 CST
@ Giskard: yes I do. The message in the pattern is "television is the root of all evil - it stifels creativity and numbs the imagination." (ok so the only reason we don't have t.v. is we had the cable pulled out months ago and don't have an outside antenna) ...and that's my story and I am sticking to it.

@ Saylah. Yes indeedy you are correct. Not everyone reads notes and comments and that is why we do the listener mail section. O.K. so it's not a flame but we will include it anyway.

@ Vansturm: WHAT'S THAT ABOUT MY MOA ARE YOU INSANE!!!!!! And by the way the last time I scanned down a dead space instance I went back for repairs and came back and found someone with a much larger ship and cleared out the instance on me. It appears that dead space is not as safe as it seems. Either he scanned down the dead space instance as well or someohow followed me in.


@ Yoh: perhaps sleepers can be salvaged but when you are the only player on in a primarily Australian corporation ...... AND you discover an unstable worm hole while looking for hidden pirate bases - well there just isn't much you can do about it.

Julie



'repeats' by giskard
Submitted on 2009-04-30 15:16:30 CST
Do not worry julie, when you get TV again, you can soon catch up with what you missed. The trend these days is to repeat everything to death.


'More salvaging info' by Draekas
Submitted on 2009-05-01 06:29:46 CST
Yeah, even more on salvaging. =P

Salvage is like loot. The salvage that drops is already there in the background, predetermined when the wreck is created. You can find this out by having an almost full cargohold, and then trying to salvage more wrecks.

If the wreck produces some large object (usually metal scrap, which is almost worthless but takes up alot of M3), it wont let you even start your salvagers, and gives you a warning to that effect. However, if you try to salvage another wreck that would give you less M3 in salvage and would fit in your cargo hold, then it lets you do it.

As a result, as the salvage is predetermined, it there is no way (other than a bug maybe) to get better salvage. The salvage skills, and salvage tackle rigs only increase the odds on a successful salvage attempt, and hence speed up the salvaging process. You really will notice the difference too. With salvaging 4 or 5, and a salvage ship with 3 salvage tackles (rigs), you really fly through the looting/salvage process quickly.

Also, there are some rare NPCs that can only be salvaged with salvaging 5 I believe, but these are only the rare belt spawns that often drop faction/rare items.

For mission salvaging, the best cheap ship is a destroyer, as mentioned by VanSturm. 4 tractors and 4 salvagers, plus a MWD or AB, and the lows filled with cargo expander II. the MWD/AB are really useful salvaging level 3 and 4s especially, as the wrecks can be really spread out, and take a while to slow boat to them, even with the 20km range on the tractor beams.

A step up from those would be something like some of the battlecruisers or battleships. Especially the Harbringer or Hurricane. Both have 8 highs, and more cargo space, and more low slots for extra cargo expanders. Caldari are a bit screwed here, as their ships are really REALLY slow, so while you could use a drake with its 8 highs, its a bit slow.. but still useable I suppose. Gallente are a tad more screwed with the BC selection, as at most you'd have a Brutix with 7 highs, or the Myrmadon with 6.

Same idea with the battleships.. choose those with 8 highs (every race has them), and larger cargo space and low slot count. MWD for sure here though, otherwise they're gonna be a tad slow.

The best choice of course are mauraders. The 100% bonus to tractor beam range and velocity, and the huge cargo holds they have make them perfect for the job. They're also insanely expensive and have uber high skill prereqs, so, they're kind of an end game salvage ship. Plus, I usually mission with mine, and use 1 tractor/2salvagers to loot as I go, and don't need a backup salvage ship anymore.

An option for Gallente ship pilots would be to mission in a drone boat. A myrmadon or Dominix, with one or two guns in the highs, and the rest used for tractor/salvagers. They key here is to use your drones for your damage, and then loot as you go, or at least what you can finish before the rats in each room are dead. This can save you some time when you return to salvage afterwards. However, DON'T use cargo expanders on your mission ship, if you want to live. =P

Before I got a maurader, I too used to BM (bookmark) a wreck in each mission room, turn in mission, then return in my salvage destroyer. Loot each room.. if full, jettison one jetcan and BM it. Dock and return in an industrial ship by warping to each can directly. Seemed the best way to get things done if solo.

If you do missions in a small gang, then it is usually best to have one person follow behind in a salvage ship as the mission is ongoing, and loot/salvage each room as you proceed. In my corp this was a great way for newer players who couldn't run/fight in level 4 missions to make money. We'd split everything evenly afterwards. Some more selfish people may think that doing that is silly, but even for them, it saves a more skilled player from spending the time to go back and do it themselves afterwards.

Some other notes of interest:

Confirming that you can salvage anyone's wreck, without concord/standings penalty. You may incure the wrath/annoyance of the owner of the wreck, however. There are dedicated salvage "thieves" out there, who scan down mission runners and salvage thier missions right under thier nose, with nothing you can really do to stop them. Only if they steal your loot can you attack them..and then usually its a bait trap, and they'll return in a larger ship to kill you in your expensive mission ship.

Amarr and Minmattar missions generally give better salvage. Their racial pirate adversaries generally drop more of the more valuable salvage items. Same with belt rats in Amarr and Minnie space.

Hmm, this turned into an essay, perhaps I'll stop here. =D

Good luck in EVE. Its not always the most fun game in the world, but somehow, its the most... satisfying, if that's the right word. I certainly can't seem to shake it when I try other MMOs. I always seems to return home to EVE.




'Deadspace or Deadspace' by VanSturm
Submitted on 2009-05-01 14:48:10 CST
@Julie

Sorry if my comments on your pride and joy offended you, but for my money the Rupture is the best Tech 1 cruiser out there. Many would argue that it's the Thorax. Very few would argue that it's a Moa. Personally I'd rather fly a Caracal. That said, I really have only my experiences with the Moa to base opinions off, and in my opinion, it's the last cruiser I'd fly for combat before the tier 1 utilities cruisers!

As for the deadspace problem. Deadspace instances are designed to be scanned out, but a mission deadspace instance is a whole lot harder to scan down. Often someone wanting to find someone in a mission deadspace will scan for their drones instead of the ship. A mission deadspace is impossible to scan down if there is no one in it (as far as I know), and you need pretty good skills to scan down a pilot not using drones. Once a mission is completed the deadspace dissapears. I'm not sure that wrecks can be probed out, and most people don't bother.

So you finish your mission in deadspace, and hand in the missions. You then have a few salvage fields (you bookmarked while missioning) that you can return to, and no one should be able to find you unless you are there.

Oh, and a wreck will exist in space for up to 2 hours, but anything over an hour and you are pushing it. Also missions reset at downtime, so if you haven't completed it by downtime, your going to have to redo it (confusingly, if you have completed the mission objective before downtime you can still complete the mission after downtime).

Van Sturm



'...yawn' by Celestian
Submitted on 2009-05-01 16:41:33 CST
All this talk about Eve is putting me to sleep. Just glad I could fast forward past it all for the other bits. The game sounds as boring as working on a spread sheet.

Sorry for the bad feedback, normally I love all your topics. Even you two ladies couldn't make Eve entertaining ;)



'Yow want excitement!!!???' by Julie
Submitted on 2009-05-01 16:49:13 CST
Take a ship that cost many players real time months to make and billions of isk worth ALOT of real mone out in to low security space and try and NOT get it blown up...

@ VanSturm: Caracal!!! The flying space rail???? Now the heavy assault version perhaps. Offend me? Hells bells it would take alot more than that...

@ Draekas: thanks, on behalf of all the listeners for the additional advice on one of the best ways to "print isk":.

Julie



'Agreed' by VanSturm
Submitted on 2009-05-01 21:43:37 CST
Think of EVE PVP like gambling. You're betting the cost of your ship and modules against the cost of your opponent's ships and modules when you are fighting. WInner takes all. I've never had the same kind of buzz fighting in EVE in any other computer game, because something quantifiable in terms of time spent is on the line instead of position on a list athte end of a round.

EVE has had me dancing around the room on several occasions. Killing a pirate with 250 HP of structure left on my Raven, and getting into a 4 on 1, and killing 2 ships before escaping spring to mind. I do accept that EVE isn't for everyone, but if the idea of an MMO Elite takes your fancy, then EVE is as close as it gets.

Van Sturm

P.S. I just realised that I've dated myself with this post :S



'@Vansturm' by Celestian
Submitted on 2009-05-02 02:47:19 CST
That would probably be why I don't like it then. I never hate gambling ;)



'Duh... typo' by Celestian
Submitted on 2009-05-02 02:47:56 CST
I meant I hate gambling sorry.



'WAR has been Hacked !!' by Carmedil
Submitted on 2009-05-06 13:35:55 CST
Might I suggest you listen to the latest WARP podcast over at the Deadworkers guys. I'm sure Julie will just love the first 10 minutes.