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No Prisoners, No Mercy
Host: Julie Whitefeather & Frances Kosac
There comes a time, friends, when your favorite MMO ceases to sparkle, when even new videogames lose their luster, and the computer room becomes a prison; and all that is left are two gamers (who happen to be nuns) with a very large axe to grind. Come join Julie Whitefeather and Frances Kosac as they go to War - and along the way discuss the events of the week in the MMO industry.

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Related site: http://www.virginworlds.com/blog.php?cat=julie


This Podcast Sponsored by:
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No Prisoners, No Mercy - Show 5
Sat, 6 Sep 2008 01:58:00 GMT [download/play]



Another week and time for another edition of No Prisoners, No Mercy.  We have uploaded show 5. We will being doing a special feature over the weekend on J.T. Hampton and our regular show will record again next Wednesday. I can never thank you enough for the opportunity that this gives us. Thank you so much for all your hard work.

Julie

Here are the show notes for show 5:

1.) Hip Hop Hell
2.) Good Nun, Bad Nun
3.) Waaagh
4.) News Talk
5.) Listener comments
6.) Good Nun, Bad Nun - round 2

Web sites cited:
www.primagames.com/features/warhammer/quiz/
www.blacklibrary.com
www.multiplayer.mtv.com
www.eurogamer.net/article.php?article_id=228691

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Episode 5 Discussion Thread

'I do the same thing/Warhammer PvP question' by telstar
Submitted on 2008-09-06 02:16:29 CST
Sister Fran! That was halarious. I do the same thing in WOW. I send my final rebuttal and then quickly put the person on ignore. I love that feature when the idiot on the other end won't stop with the silly argument in chat.

Sister Julie! not sure if that what I am okay to call you but didn't want to be disrespectful by just calling you Julie, I wanted to let you know that I HAVE been listening to your cast and I am now finding it to be very entertaining and I have warmed up to your sense of humor and perspectives. You are doing a great job with the cast.

You both are a riot and I didn't think that I was going to get hooked on NPNM but I have to say that you are great team and are very fun to listen to.

One last quick question... In Warhammer, is the RvR like battleground with the tiny maps or is it like big zone maps? Is the RvR in the regular game world at all or is it only when you select it - like instanced PvP?

I love the PvP that isn't just in the battlegrounds. In my opinion, PvP is so much better when it's in the regular game world. My favorite passtime on my rogue is to sneak around Ogrimar or bring a few friends on the zeplin to do some ganking. The element of surprise always makes for better PvP and battlegrounds there is no surprise. On my hunter and druid, I would jump from mushroom to mushroom in Zangarmarsh and look for the unaware gamer who happened to cross my path only to find an ambush of arrows. In battlegrounds, I feel like I am playing a FPS map from Quake/UT or something when your confined to a tiny space and everyone knows your there. I would at least like to see a choice of "World PvP with meaning" and battlegrounds type game play in Warhammer.



'Warhammer PvP' by Julie
Submitted on 2008-09-06 23:31:07 CST
Thanks for the kind compliments...they are the sort of thing that keep us going on. As to the question the scenarios are small zones and small maps like Warsong gulch in WoW. However the R vs.R combat is just basically an area of the world without any instancing. It is, in fact, quite large where I tried (in vain) to pvp with my dark elf sorceress. So far she was like a "glass cannon" without the cannon part. Sadly the class was far underpowered compared to the ability of the other class to withstand damage. Keep in mind, however, that I am only talking about the whole "Teir 1" pvp experience. My understanding about the battle to control cities is that they will be instanced with a maxium of 48 on each side.

Julie



'Great show guys.' by Checksix
Submitted on 2008-09-07 21:27:50 CST
I love this show. You two are great and I think you both have a great take on gaming.

I thought you were a little hard on WoW in terms of them "stealing" content from Warhammer Online. Remember that every one in this industry "borrows" ideas from each other. To be honest i like it that way. Because that means the best ideas live on in new and exciting ways even if their "original" games don't.

I say, "orignal" (in quotes) because none of this is truly original. We all owe our creative roots to some one else. I think God is the only intelligent being who's ever had an "original" idea.



'WoW tournament realm = e-Sport' by Shalkis
Submitted on 2008-09-08 01:16:02 CST
In the podcast, you said that if Blizzard wants to make WoW an e-sport, they need to address gear imbalances. They have, and it's called the tournament realm:
http://www.worldofwarcraft.com/pvp/tournament/faq.xml

"Upon entering the world with a new character, nearby NPCs in your starting area will outfit the character with gear, training, class-specific needs such as soul shards and hunter pets, and all the gold you'll need. In fact, everything your character will need to participate in the tournament will be located conveniently in your starting area."

However, that doesn't make gear irrelevant. You can still encounter opponents that outgear you. But unlike in vanilla WoW where the only way to get the Ultimate Sword of Doom is to raid or PvP until your ears bleed, you can get the exact same gear by revisiting your starting area. Other games like EvE Online do their own e-sport events in the same fashion: Everyone gets the same amount of resources, and how you use those is up to you. It's possible to follow the old Sun Tzu adage and win before stepping into the battlefield, but to reach the top you must excel in both planning and execution.



'Oh Dear :(' by xBevisx
Submitted on 2008-09-08 11:02:11 CST
Hello sisters! Or with your new found love of Warhammer, SISTERS OF SIGMAR!

I had written a fairly long comment for you just a minute ago but trying to post it, it got lost somewhere in cyberspace!

So the condensed version:
Love your show, good to hear folks so enthusiastic about games and just having fun without being too analytical. You keep me entertained at work :D

Excellent rap and the comment about hunters in AV made me laugh out loud.

As for Gotrek, I dont think King Gotrek and Gotrek the slayer are one in the same. King Gotrek was High King of the Dwarves during the infamous War of the Beard which tore apart the friendship between elves and dwarves. WAR has actually made me look in Warhammer lore a lot more, as Im usually a Warhammer 40000 tabletop player.

Anyway keep up the great work, Im looking forward to you next show.



'Thanks for the comments' by Julie
Submitted on 2008-09-08 17:38:47 CST
@ Checksix: Thanks for the compliment. As I have said before, they are what keep us going. I had second thoughts about taking this discussion point any further. However, two events occured at the same time - this morning Fran mentioned she wanted to continue the subject. And when I read the virginworlds news feed this morning it seems the subject has caused a bit of an uproar (again) at Rock, Paper, Shotgun (what a great name) I said to myself "now we have to continue the subject." I am a big fan of both WoW and Warhammer but this is one case of what Sister Fran wants she gets...perhaps you could present another viewpoint for us all.

@ Shalkis: Yes indeed Eve TV and their tournaments are a far cry from the failed attempt to highlight arena competition at the 2007 Blizzcon or the failure of the World Series of Video Games. The caveat here is, of course, that what is not popular in gaming in one country may be very popular in another - such as games supported by micro-transactions. Real Time Strategy sports may work in some countries, and first person shooters may work here but I have big doubts about arena competition ever working as an e-sport. To me, unless the playing field is abolutely level and the presentation can be done right the whole attempt is meaningless.

The point is, however, as a pvp fan what matters to me is what a company, be it Activision/Blizzard, Mythic, or Turbine do to make pvp fun. If I have to go out and die nearly immediately ever time I play pvp stops being fun. This is perhaps why arenas hold no interest for me whatsoever. The arenas that players compete in on the servers they also play wow on are far from being a level playing field.

All this has to be balanced by what one looks for in pvp. Some of the most exciting times I have had in pvp was when the most was at stake. But as some listeners and readers have pointed out, that does indeed get old fast (and hence why I quit Eve Online). Balance all this (if you can) with the times that I just want to go out and have a "grand old time" at pvp. If you die almost instantly and constantly it stops being fun. Some people in my guild (TOG) have pointed out that Mythic wants to encourage team participation and "they don't care if one class owns another 100% of the time." However, when it comes to open world pvp (as the realm vs. realm I have seen in tier one warhammer is) everyone so far has been very much on their own. What I have seen in scenario pvp seems to vary greatly, even amongst the races played oddly enough.

@ xBevisx First, I have had my long replies (like this one) disappear as well. Thats why whenever I submit a response I always copy it first before I hit the "submit comment" button. Sister of Sigmar eh? Well in our case I think it is turning out to be a bit more like "Sisters of Grungni" (one of the dwarven gods of course).

King Gotrek: Mia culpa, you are, no doubt correct. More than likely the plaque does refer to High King Gotrk Starbreaker and not as I hoped a future of Gotrek Gurnison in the game. Here is who High King Gotrek Starbreaker is:

Gotrek Starbreaker

Gotrek was the High King who mistook a Dark Elf raid on a Dwarf caravan for an act of war by the High Elves, Gotrek was outraged at this act by a race he had peaceful relations with and sent an envoy to Ulthuan to demand compensation, the envoy drew his weapon in front of the Phoenix King, a grave crime in Ulthuan and the insulted Elves shaved his beard and cast him out of Ulthuan. Enraged, Gotrek declared war on the Asur and started the War of Vengeance. The war ended when Gotrek slew the Phoenix King Caledor II in single combat, taking the Phoenix crown as a prize. - Hammerwiki

I will make sure to include all this in our next podcast (recording this wednesday if anyone wants to have their say on it.)



'So happy right now....' by xBevisx
Submitted on 2008-09-09 04:58:08 CST
Thanks for the reply, Sis Julie! :D

Im buzzing at the moment. After however many years of waiting (Ive been following Warhammer online even before Mythic got the rights, iirc there was another developer that had it a few years back) and the horror of the last few days trying to get through the GOA EU registration process, this morning i finally got in game. Just long enough to make a random marauder and kill a ungor, but thats not the point, Im in, WOOOOHOOOOO! I was a little late for work, but under these circumstances, i think thats allowed! heehee. Although after all that, I think this made be the longest day at work ever!

Getting back to WOW, what used to make me instantly fume with rage is when you get ganked by a pack of 5+ players and one of them dares to laugh at your corpse. What exactly did you expect me to do? Theres 5 of you and 1 of me?
One occasion that really made me laugh was, I was coming close to 70 with my dwarf fury warrior and was happily killing the mana wraiths outside Area52. Some blood elf rogue a couple of levels higher than me comes over flagged for pvp (yes, i know, im on a carebear server. hate that phrase. lol). Now you can see his got really good gear, his weapons are enchanted etc, and I have not so great gear at that point. Hes laughing at me, doing the chicken emote and standing in front of mobs hoping that I'll click him by accident. This got up my nose a bit. So i took my time, bandaged up, looked him square in the eye, AND LAUNCHED A WHOLE TONNE OF PURE DWARVEN WHIRLING DEATH ON HIM. I was creaming him, he didnt stand a chance but just before I managed to hit that all important EXECUTE button, *poof* he pops a vanish and sprints away, tail between his legs. That was one of my best encounters purely for comedy value.

Good choice of race by the way. I always love dwarf characters in fantasy setting. Pretty much all my alts are dwarves. Gritty, no nonesense bad asses.

DWARVEN BATTLE NUNS FOR THE WIN!

Bevis ;P (pronounced Bev-is/Bef-is not like Beavis and Butthead, haha!)



'Wizards player class in LoTRO' by FarSpace
Submitted on 2008-09-11 02:58:34 CST
LoTRO getting a wizard race and class and wizards no longer special and rare? Does this remind any one about SWG and Jedi?

Although I do admit SWG is still ahead of its time in many ways. And personal I don't care, I just pretend SWG is in a different time frame now or whatever.



'Adapting' by Julie
Submitted on 2008-09-11 16:32:57 CST
It seems that the staff over at Turbine are adapting to the times. It's difficult to have an mmo without any sort of pure magic using class. Lord of the Rings is a great book but as the song goes, "The times they are a changin'"

Julie