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Shut Up. We're Talking.
Host: Darren and Karen
Darren and Karen present this commentary podcast covering recent topics found within the MMORPG Blogging and Podcasting community.

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Shut Up. We're Talking #40
Mon, 22 Dec 2008 02:45:00 GMT [download/play]



SUWT end of year special with Darren, Karen, Michael and John.
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Previous Episodes
Episode #77 - Duration: 2925 - Released: Wed, 13 Jul 2011 06:16:01 +0000
Episode #76 - Duration: 7730 - Released: Sun, 30 Jan 2011 19:34:01 +0000
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Episode #68 - Duration: 01:13:32 - Released: Sun, 15 Aug 2010 15:34:00 GMT
Episode #67 - Duration: 01:12:09 - Released: Sun, 18 Jul 2010 14:24:00 GMT
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Episode #65 - Duration: 01:23:43 - Released: Sun, 20 Jun 2010 16:03:00 GMT
Episode #64 - Duration: - Released: Sun, 6 Jun 2010 15:51:00 GMT
Episode #63 - Duration: 01:13:26 - Released: Sun, 16 May 2010 17:52:00 GMT
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Episode #61 - Duration: 01:26:12 - Released: Fri, 16 Apr 2010 01:26:00 GMT
Episode #60 - Duration: 01:57:27 - Released: Tue, 30 Mar 2010 23:34:00 GMT
Episode #59 - Duration: 01:37:24 - Released: Mon, 1 Mar 2010 03:48:00 GMT
Episode #58 - Duration: 01:21:01 - Released: Sun, 14 Feb 2010 18:45:00 GMT
Episode #57 - Duration: 01:47:46 - Released: Mon, 1 Feb 2010 19:01:00 GMT
Episode #56.5 - Duration: 00:02:21 - Released: Wed, 20 Jan 2010 12:26:00 GMT
Episode #56 - Duration: 01:01:53 - Released: Mon, 16 Nov 2009 19:41:00 GMT
Episode #55 - Duration: 01:16:27 - Released: Tue, 20 Oct 2009 02:31:00 GMT
Episode #54 - Duration: 01:14:25 - Released: Mon, 28 Sep 2009 01:51:00 GMT
Episode #53 - Duration: 01:31:47 - Released: Tue, 8 Sep 2009 04:12:00 GMT
Episode #52.5 - Duration: 00:04:12 - Released: Wed, 2 Sep 2009 19:43:00 GMT
Episode #52 - Duration: 01:04:24 - Released: Tue, 28 Jul 2009 16:35:00 GMT
Episode #51 - Duration: 01:17:30 - Released: Mon, 13 Jul 2009 23:49:00 GMT
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Episode #49 - Duration: 01:03:31 - Released: Tue, 16 Jun 2009 21:27:00 GMT
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Episode #46 - Duration: 01:27:11 - Released: Mon, 4 May 2009 02:05:00 GMT
Episode #45 - Duration: 01:04:36 - Released: Mon, 13 Apr 2009 20:01:00 GMT
Episode #44 - Duration: 00:56:47 - Released: Mon, 16 Mar 2009 16:15:00 GMT
Episode #43.1 - Duration: 00:18:59 - Released: Mon, 9 Mar 2009 20:11:00 GMT
Episode #43 - Duration: 00:59:34 - Released: Mon, 23 Feb 2009 01:24:00 GMT
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Episode #41 - Duration: 01:06:59 - Released: Mon, 26 Jan 2009 01:55:00 GMT
Episode #40.5 - Duration: 00:02:50 - Released: Mon, 19 Jan 2009 17:48:00 GMT
Episode #40 - Duration: 01:16:52 - Released: Mon, 22 Dec 2008 02:45:00 GMT
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Episode #7 - Duration: 01:11:21 - Released: Mon, 20 Aug 2007 04:05:00 GMT
Episode #6 - Duration: 01:10:07 - Released: Mon, 6 Aug 2007 01:13:00 GMT
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Episode #2 - Duration: 01:09:48 - Released: Wed, 6 Jun 2007 05:20:00 GMT
Episode #1 - Duration: 01:08:21 - Released: Mon, 28 May 2007 02:12:00 GMT

Episode 40 Discussion Thread

'EVE Scandals' by SaraPickell
Submitted on 2008-12-23 01:13:32 CST
I suppose my only thought on players putting up with CCP's many scandals is... where would they go? I mean, there aren't really any other games like it out there, and for the people really invested it's not like they could get a head start elsewhere.


'Good show' by welshtroll
Submitted on 2008-12-24 16:18:38 CST
I loved the format of the show with the past, present and future.

Thank you all for taking the time to discuss this year and some of your thoughts on 2009. Michaels rant had me giggling on the bus home today, wonderfully said.

Merry Christmas all.



'Eve -- Tough Community' by Checksix
Submitted on 2008-12-25 13:20:58 CST
I think people put up with the scandals and mis-steps in Eve because those people are just a tougher breed of gamer.

Before you get all "WHAT", hear me out.

Pvp gamers are much less whiney than non pvp gamers. Ask any community manager and they will tell you it's true. In Eve, you're constantly under threat. You know that million ISK ship you're cruising around in? Yeah, It's gonna get blown to bits. You live with it, and when it happens you roll with the punches and start again.

So when other punches come in game, like scandals, Eve gamers just kind of shrug and move forward.

A tougher breed of gamer.



'PvP Gamers not whiny?' by Wilhelm2451
Submitted on 2008-12-31 22:44:27 CST
I'm not sure the facts bear out your theory Checksix. And do you have a community manager that will go on record to back up your assertion?

Certainly most of the whining I've seen coming after some scandals has been almost exclusively from PvP players. I didn't see much industrialist reaction to the allegations that a CCP employee gave BoB BPOs, but there were ongoing whine-fests from other alliances. I don't think the Goons have stopped whining yet.

And there is certainly more than enough pro-PvP whining going on in the EVE forums to scotch the idea that PvP players some how suck up game changes and move on.

In fact, I could make the case that PvP players are more whiny because any perceived imbalance in the game affects their game play.

I think it is more a matter of there being a certain percentage of players in any game that feel the need to express themselves loudly and repeatedly when anything they do not like occurs, but that the game companies know that they represent a small percentage of the overall total.

After all, even your assumption that EVE players are PvP players is a bit skewed. CCPs statistics indicate that not only do most EVE players never enter 0.0 space, they never even enter low security space.



'A different kind of whine' by SwollenBeef
Submitted on 2009-01-02 03:16:15 CST
PvP gamers are as whiny, BUT, their whines are different than the crap you see on the WoW forums, or VN boards.

Their whines generally involve gameplay issues. Hacks, exploits, LEGITIMATE balance issues.

And Wilhelm, i will accept the claim that 0.0 is less populated than high sec, but where do you get your information saying that low sec is just as equally empty as 0.0?


and saying EVE players are more whiny; go to any WoW board and tell me EVE players are more whiny.



'Whiners are Whiners' by Wilhelm2451
Submitted on 2009-01-02 18:28:35 CST
I can guarantee that everybody thinks that their particular whine is legitimate and important. You may think they are crap, but you don't sound like you play the PvE game, so you cannot really judge. That they don't matter to you does not mean they do not matter to somebody.

I got the information on what % of players go into low sec from one of the EVE economic summaries, if I recall right. So CCP says it is so. And I did not say low sec was equally as empty as 0.0, so please do not twist my words. (Common whiner tactic, so maybe you were just illustrating a point?) I said most players not only stick to empire space, but never actually go into a low sec system, a different meaning altogether.

I've been to both boards. You are mistaking volume based on 2.5 million players in the US vs. 250K players world wide for over all whininess. WoW nerfs hunters and there is a whole bunch of whining. CCP nerfs nanos and you'd think they'd declared war on the Gallente themselves from the response.

And I see plenty of whines on the EVE boards about the purity of the sandbox, catering too much to PvE players, or nit picks about the content of any given patch and how it spells doom to some specific segment of players, usually represented by the poster. (i.e. not really about legitimate issues as you defined them.)

Anyway, my response was to the idea that somehow PvP players aren't whiners. They are. But nobody who is a whiner thinks they are.

In the end, they all come down to the same thing; Things aren't going the way I think they should, please cater to my needs and desires. (Though the please seems to be pretty optional.) It comes up in all games equally regardless of the play style because the whiner gene crosses all known demographics.



'What is wrong with an ending?' by Delph
Submitted on 2009-01-10 01:44:05 CST
First off let me say I have enjoyed listening to your podcast for a long time. In one area I seem to have a disconnect with you and all your guests. Why do you consider an MMO a failure if it fades after 6 months? Why is it that a MMO must entertain you forever? What is wrong with playing a game for 3 or 6 months, enjoying it and then moving on to another. As an example, I played DDO for 6 months and loved it. Then I moved on. I also played PotBS for about 3 months and really enjoyed it. I definitely feel that I got my money's worth versus almost any other possible entertainment on a cost per hour basis. As for the designers of the MMO, if they built their games to be played for 6 months, they could manage the story better. Also, the MMO designer could structure their staff and other expenses to make a profit in the same way a single player game is made. I guess I am saying "What is wrong with building a single player game like Fall Out 3 but making it massively multi-player." The business model certainly could work and I think people would have more fun if there were other people moving through the story line with them.


Delph



'41 on it's way' by darrenl
Submitted on 2009-01-16 22:58:12 CST
...recording tonight and will be up on Monday.

Sorry for delay all. New Year shuffle and all ;)