To post comments, please login.

Shut Up. We're Talking.
Host: Darren and Karen
Darren and Karen present this commentary podcast covering recent topics found within the MMORPG Blogging and Podcasting community.

Subscribe via iTunes  Subscribe to RSS Feed  


This Podcast Sponsored by:
   Wilhelm2451
   Belo




Help the Collective. Become a supporter or sponsor on the Support Page.
Shut Up. We're Talking #46
Mon, 4 May 2009 02:05:00 GMT [download/play]



  • Introductions
  • What we're playing
  • Free Realms
  • Designer Blogs - Any Good
  • Blog of the Week

  • Hosts:
  • Darren - Commonsensegamer.com
  • Karen - Journey's with Jaye
  • Brent - VirginWorlds
  • Michael - DCUO
  • Craig - Voyages In Enternity
  • Adam - Witty Ranter
  • Jonathan - Through The Aftermath


  • Topics:
  • A Controversial Question - Game Design Bloggers
  • I Are Game Design Blogger
  • Helpful Lum Is Helpful: Design Blogs And You
  • Game Design Bloggery (She said, then he said, then I saidâ)
  • FreeRealms


  • Blog of the Week:
  • Bethesda Blog

  • Login to post a comment
    Previous Episodes
    Episode #77 - Duration: 2925 - Released: Wed, 13 Jul 2011 06:16:01 +0000
    Episode #76 - Duration: 7730 - Released: Sun, 30 Jan 2011 19:34:01 +0000
    Episode #75 - Duration: 4659 - Released: Sun, 12 Dec 2010 17:57:48 +0000
    Episode #74 - Duration: 4071 - Released: Sun, 21 Nov 2010 20:22:45 +0000
    Episode #73 - Duration: 4943 - Released: Sun, 07 Nov 2010 19:41:07 +0000
    Episode #72 - Duration: 4707 - Released: Sun, 17 Oct 2010 18:28:52 +0000
    Episode #71 - Duration: 3820 - Released: Sun, 26 Sep 2010 16:39:28 +0000
    Episode #70 - Duration: 4623 - Released: Sun, 12 Sep 2010 15:51:32 +0000
    Episode #69 - Duration: 4837 - Released: Sun, 29 Aug 2010 18:07:07 +0000
    Episode #68 - Duration: 01:13:32 - Released: Sun, 15 Aug 2010 15:34:00 GMT
    Episode #67 - Duration: 01:12:09 - Released: Sun, 18 Jul 2010 14:24:00 GMT
    Episode #66 - Duration: 00:59:30 - Released: Mon, 5 Jul 2010 23:26:00 GMT
    Episode #65 - Duration: 01:23:43 - Released: Sun, 20 Jun 2010 16:03:00 GMT
    Episode #64 - Duration: - Released: Sun, 6 Jun 2010 15:51:00 GMT
    Episode #63 - Duration: 01:13:26 - Released: Sun, 16 May 2010 17:52:00 GMT
    Episode #62 - Duration: 01:12:04 - Released: Thu, 6 May 2010 23:28:00 GMT
    Episode #61 - Duration: 01:26:12 - Released: Fri, 16 Apr 2010 01:26:00 GMT
    Episode #60 - Duration: 01:57:27 - Released: Tue, 30 Mar 2010 23:34:00 GMT
    Episode #59 - Duration: 01:37:24 - Released: Mon, 1 Mar 2010 03:48:00 GMT
    Episode #58 - Duration: 01:21:01 - Released: Sun, 14 Feb 2010 18:45:00 GMT
    Episode #57 - Duration: 01:47:46 - Released: Mon, 1 Feb 2010 19:01:00 GMT
    Episode #56.5 - Duration: 00:02:21 - Released: Wed, 20 Jan 2010 12:26:00 GMT
    Episode #56 - Duration: 01:01:53 - Released: Mon, 16 Nov 2009 19:41:00 GMT
    Episode #55 - Duration: 01:16:27 - Released: Tue, 20 Oct 2009 02:31:00 GMT
    Episode #54 - Duration: 01:14:25 - Released: Mon, 28 Sep 2009 01:51:00 GMT
    Episode #53 - Duration: 01:31:47 - Released: Tue, 8 Sep 2009 04:12:00 GMT
    Episode #52.5 - Duration: 00:04:12 - Released: Wed, 2 Sep 2009 19:43:00 GMT
    Episode #52 - Duration: 01:04:24 - Released: Tue, 28 Jul 2009 16:35:00 GMT
    Episode #51 - Duration: 01:17:30 - Released: Mon, 13 Jul 2009 23:49:00 GMT
    Episode #50 - Duration: 01:35:33 - Released: Mon, 29 Jun 2009 16:15:00 GMT
    Episode #49 - Duration: 01:03:31 - Released: Tue, 16 Jun 2009 21:27:00 GMT
    Episode #48 - Duration: 01:13:44 - Released: Thu, 4 Jun 2009 15:25:00 GMT
    Episode #47 - Duration: 01:10:07 - Released: Sun, 10 May 2009 21:21:00 GMT
    Episode #46 - Duration: 01:27:11 - Released: Mon, 4 May 2009 02:05:00 GMT
    Episode #45 - Duration: 01:04:36 - Released: Mon, 13 Apr 2009 20:01:00 GMT
    Episode #44 - Duration: 00:56:47 - Released: Mon, 16 Mar 2009 16:15:00 GMT
    Episode #43.1 - Duration: 00:18:59 - Released: Mon, 9 Mar 2009 20:11:00 GMT
    Episode #43 - Duration: 00:59:34 - Released: Mon, 23 Feb 2009 01:24:00 GMT
    Episode #42 - Duration: 01:11:28 - Released: Sun, 8 Feb 2009 15:14:00 GMT
    Episode #41 - Duration: 01:06:59 - Released: Mon, 26 Jan 2009 01:55:00 GMT
    Episode #40.5 - Duration: 00:02:50 - Released: Mon, 19 Jan 2009 17:48:00 GMT
    Episode #40 - Duration: 01:16:52 - Released: Mon, 22 Dec 2008 02:45:00 GMT
    Episode #39 - Duration: 01:08:43 - Released: Mon, 15 Dec 2008 06:01:00 GMT
    Episode #38 - Duration: 00:37:38 - Released: Mon, 1 Dec 2008 05:49:00 GMT
    Episode #37 - Duration: - Released: Mon, 17 Nov 2008 17:26:00 GMT
    Episode #36 - Duration: 01:10:59 - Released: Mon, 3 Nov 2008 03:03:00 GMT
    Episode #35 - Duration: 00:49:08 - Released: Sun, 19 Oct 2008 22:54:00 GMT
    Episode #34 - Duration: 01:08:50 - Released: Sun, 5 Oct 2008 19:38:00 GMT
    Episode #33 - Duration: 00:58:54 - Released: Mon, 8 Sep 2008 01:42:00 GMT
    Episode #32 - Duration: 01:03:27 - Released: Sun, 24 Aug 2008 19:01:00 GMT
    Episode #31 - Duration: 01:05:03 - Released: Sun, 3 Aug 2008 20:13:00 GMT
    Episode #30 - Duration: 00:59:20 - Released: Mon, 21 Jul 2008 00:44:00 GMT
    Episode #29 - Duration: 00:28:31 - Released: Sat, 28 Jun 2008 13:48:00 GMT
    Episode #28 - Duration: 01:09:13 - Released: Sun, 15 Jun 2008 19:31:00 GMT
    Episode #27 - Duration: 01:14:25 - Released: Mon, 2 Jun 2008 02:42:00 GMT
    Episode #26 - Duration: 01:06:47 - Released: Mon, 19 May 2008 03:10:00 GMT
    Episode #25 - Duration: 01:01:48 - Released: Mon, 28 Apr 2008 01:46:00 GMT
    Episode #24 - Duration: 00:57:48 - Released: Mon, 14 Apr 2008 00:00:00 GMT
    Episode #23 - Duration: 00:47:54 - Released: Mon, 31 Mar 2008 01:05:00 GMT
    Episode #22 - Duration: 01:12:16 - Released: Mon, 17 Mar 2008 04:54:00 GMT
    Episode #21 - Duration: 01:56:55 - Released: Fri, 7 Mar 2008 05:01:00 GMT
    Episode #20 - Duration: 00:49:01 - Released: Mon, 18 Feb 2008 04:08:00 GMT
    Episode #19 - Duration: 01:01:05 - Released: Sun, 3 Feb 2008 05:08:00 GMT
    Episode #18 - Duration: 01:08:01 - Released: Mon, 21 Jan 2008 02:35:00 GMT
    Episode #17 - Duration: 01:36:26 - Released: Mon, 7 Jan 2008 04:07:00 GMT
    Episode #16 - Duration: 01:06:39 - Released: Mon, 24 Dec 2007 15:58:00 GMT
    Episode #15 - Duration: 01:33:23 - Released: Mon, 10 Dec 2007 01:24:00 GMT
    Episode #14 - Duration: 01:24:15 - Released: Mon, 26 Nov 2007 07:47:00 GMT
    Episode #13 - Duration: 01:22:18 - Released: Mon, 12 Nov 2007 01:30:00 GMT
    Episode #12 - Duration: 01:17:38 - Released: Mon, 29 Oct 2007 16:55:00 GMT
    Episode #11 - Duration: 01:17:01 - Released: Mon, 15 Oct 2007 03:30:00 GMT
    Episode #10 - Duration: 01:00:37 - Released: Mon, 1 Oct 2007 03:33:00 GMT
    Episode #9 - Duration: 01:12:13 - Released: Mon, 17 Sep 2007 04:47:00 GMT
    Episode #8 - Duration: 01:24:35 - Released: Tue, 4 Sep 2007 02:44:00 GMT
    Episode #7 - Duration: 01:11:21 - Released: Mon, 20 Aug 2007 04:05:00 GMT
    Episode #6 - Duration: 01:10:07 - Released: Mon, 6 Aug 2007 01:13:00 GMT
    Episode #5 - Duration: 00:58:57 - Released: Mon, 23 Jul 2007 01:50:00 GMT
    Episode #4 - Duration: 01:13:04 - Released: Mon, 9 Jul 2007 03:52:00 GMT
    Episode #3 - Duration: 01:10:25 - Released: Sun, 24 Jun 2007 17:20:00 GMT
    Episode #2 - Duration: 01:09:48 - Released: Wed, 6 Jun 2007 05:20:00 GMT
    Episode #1 - Duration: 01:08:21 - Released: Mon, 28 May 2007 02:12:00 GMT

    Episode 46 Discussion Thread

    'Another Great Show Darren & Karren' by Checksix
    Submitted on 2009-05-04 19:52:17 CST
    I really enjoy this show, thanks guys.

    Jonathan....that boy ain't right.

    Checksix.



    'You can leave the in-game chatter on the curb' by Kasil
    Submitted on 2009-05-05 18:34:40 CST
    I am not really downloading your podcast to hear you discuss quests in LotRO. In the future please leave it at the curb, if your not going to put enough effort into the podcast to shelve your game for an hour, just skip it.


    'Missed the point' by Yoh
    Submitted on 2009-05-06 07:58:47 CST
    When I said EVE was slow in my last comment, I wasn't referring to EVE in general.
    (but in hindsight I can see how it sounded that way)
    While it is slow, and requires patience and goals, what wasn't my problem.

    My problem is with the NPE specifically. Before the changes, you could basically start the game fairly skilled enough to be a good frigate pilot, and have a decent direction ahead of you laid out. (still missing out of more specific information thou)
    But due to the changes you get squat.

    You don't have a very good direction or idea of the game at this point, and while the tutorials do sort of point you in a vague direction, their just not in-depth enough to an accurate understanding of the game yet.
    Not enough to make good decisions in training at least.

    Meanwhile, a beginner will spend most of their time training skills, as half the stuff they give you in the beginning have mid-to-low requirements. Not normally a problem, but for a nooblet's first impression, sitting around for half the day or more waiting for skills to train up just so you can use the junk they gave you is a bad message to be sending. They want to use it right there and then.


    The training multiplier they give you is pitiful. To have to spend 2-4 weeks training just be able to pilot the most basic of ships in a limited assortment of roles, is just bloody pathetic. Way to long to be spending playing 'catch up'.

    If on the other hand they gave you a x4 multiplier, and had a much deeper set of tutorials that covered more specific parts of the game (such as the importance of learning skills, drones, looking for corporations, new features like certificates/ faction warfare/wormholes, etc), and when it gave you ships/equipment, they also gave you all the relative skills to use said stuff instantly, thats when I could say it does the game justice.

    I.E. Expand the tutorials, and decrease downtime. By the end of which, the nooblet should not only have a wide enough grasp of the game, including some specifics that everybody should know, but be able to find and get into a corp and actually be of some bloody use to them.

    At the minute thou, I don't see that happening.



    'Missed the point' by Yoh
    Submitted on 2009-05-06 08:53:51 CST
    When I said EVE was slow in my last comment, I wasn't referring to EVE in general.
    (but in hindsight I can see how it sounded that way)
    While it is slow, and requires patience and goals, what wasn't my problem.

    My problem is with the NPE specifically. Before the changes, you could basically start the game fairly skilled enough to be a good frigate pilot, and have a decent direction ahead of you laid out. (still missing out of more specific information thou)
    But due to the changes you get squat.

    You don't have a very good direction or idea of the game at this point, and while the tutorials do sort of point you in a vague direction, their just not in-depth enough to an accurate understanding of the game yet.
    Not enough to make good decisions in training at least.

    Meanwhile, a beginner will spend most of their time training skills, as half the stuff they give you in the beginning have mid-to-low requirements. Not normally a problem, but for a nooblet's first impression, sitting around for half the day or more waiting for skills to train up just so you can use the junk they gave you is a bad message to be sending. They want to use it right there and then.


    The training multiplier they give you is pitiful. To have to spend 2-4 weeks training just be able to pilot the most basic of ships in a limited assortment of roles, is just bloody pathetic. Way to long to be spending playing 'catch up'.

    If on the other hand they gave you a x4 multiplier, and had a much deeper set of tutorials that covered more specific parts of the game (such as the importance of learning skills, drones, looking for corporations, new features like certificates/ faction warfare/wormholes, etc), and when it gave you ships/equipment, they also gave you all the relative skills to use said stuff instantly, thats when I could say it does the game justice.

    I.E. Expand the tutorials, and decrease downtime. By the end of which, the nooblet should not only have a wide enough grasp of the game, including some specifics that everybody should know, but be able to find and get into a corp and actually be of some bloody use to them.

    At the minute thou, I don't see that happening.



    'Loved the randomness that is the Monday Night Gaming Group :D' by MagicKira
    Submitted on 2009-05-06 16:37:50 CST
    I completely loved listening to the chatter of "ummm I wasn't paying attention and ran off a cliff". Those types of shows are completely awesome, because is just as random as the host(s) are! :D

    To the dude who said leave it at the curb, ummm, they play MMO's...this podcast is about MMO's....Am I missing something? Besides this isn't the first time they've put a show out like this, and to be honest? I hope it isn't the last. And if you can't handle hearing a little in game chatter, which really was minimal compared to some podcasts I've listened to, then why do you listen again? Because at this point I'm baffled, but maybe I'm being weird......(wouldn't be the first time! Just ask my guild in WAR lol :P)

    ~Kira



    'Won't be the last' by darrenl
    Submitted on 2009-05-06 18:39:51 CST
    Kasil certainly has the right to say he doesn't like that kind of show, but, there will be more of them scattered throughout the lifetime of SUWT. I kinda like doing them actually... ;)


    'And...' by Jonathan
    Submitted on 2009-05-07 00:42:15 CST
    And Checksix is correct... I am not right. :)


    'Randomness' by Akely
    Submitted on 2009-05-07 08:14:51 CST
    The hosts playing a game while having (or attempting to have ;-) ) a serious discussion do lead to some degrading of the 'professionalism' of the show. I think it's the first time ever I've heard Darren make a moderation failure and forget to have all the participants have their say... And it does not matter at all, to me. I do not listen to the show with the expectation of hearing a professional news/debate program. I expect some randomness. Thats what you get with real people. Especially when they are having a good time, as they seemed to have. As long as I can hear what people say I'm happy!


    Random thought spurred by Kasils thought::
    I have a (growing) concern I have with VW as a whole. I sense, or perhaps imagine, a slump in productivity of shows. I can not put my finger on what it is. Perhaps shows are farther in between than they used to be (like with VW MMORPG News, OMGRL and more). Perhaps it is good shows fading (like EQual Perspectives, TOGA, Witty Ranter). When I say concern it is not with any malignancy or finger pointing. VW is fan based. The people producing the shows are taking valuable time away from friends, family and gaming to give all of us the shows. And if to make the recording/producing a little more fun and less of a chore the crew record while playing, fine.

    I can't really say what I can do to help, other than what I'm already contributing with (and that's not much), but I will try to find the time and energy to contribute in a more than griping (like I did in the paragraph above). No harm intended BTW. Just some thoughts.



    'Re: Radomness' by darrenl
    Submitted on 2009-05-07 13:00:32 CST
    ...oy...I can't believe I'm going to feed this further ;)

    Yeah Akely...BIG air quotes on "professionalism" there I think. Us VW podcasters and you as VW listeners have to manage expectations a bit when it comes to using that word around here ;)

    Regarding frequency, I can't really speak for other shows cause I don't own them...but as for SUWT I think we've been extremely consistent on output here. Usually it's just sickness or travel/vacations that have derailed us in the past....but overall, I think the show is exactly where both Karen and I want it to be.

    D



    'Hey Akely...' by Checksix
    Submitted on 2009-05-07 13:17:41 CST
    If you don't like the show then don't pay for it.

    Wait a minute....!

    "I have a growing concern..."....Seriously?



    'Free Realms' by Seritaph
    Submitted on 2009-05-07 20:03:51 CST
    Was in the beta, wasn't all that impressed with it. I found it a bit of a snooze-fest, but maybe that's because I am way above the age bracket for which it is intended. For some reason though, I had more fun when I played ToonTown a few years back (pie in the face ftw), and that game is also above my age bracket so I don't know what the problem is. I agree with Karen's point about how there seems to be little encouragement toward social networking. There's plenty to do, but it almost all seems like everything is geared around a solo experience, which causes me to wonder why not just make it a single-player open world experience like Fallout or Oblivion? I'm also not a big fan of micro-transactions. I've seen people spend more on micro-transactions than what a 1 month subscription would cost (which I think is what SOE is hoping for). Not the game for me, but that's not saying it won't be popular.


    'I need to amplify.' by Akely
    Submitted on 2009-05-07 20:15:08 CST
    The second part was more VW in general and not directed at SUWT specifically. I tried to get that across, but it seems I failed.

    @Checksix:
    Yeah, seriously. But you missed the (growing). Perhaps the word 'concern' is to strong. /shrug
    What I feel is that shows I like don't get puplished as often as I would like them to be. And I say that without directing any criticism against the hosts/crew. I'd just like more.
    I don't get the "don't pay for it" part at all. I did not mean to say I did not like SUWT. The VW casts I don't like I don't listen to. And I'll continue supporting VW for as long as I feel I can spare the money. I'd spare more and do more if I could.
    .
    .

    Perhaps the second paragraph should have been posted elsewhere... But where? ;-)



    'Freudian slip' by Seritaph
    Submitted on 2009-05-07 20:20:06 CST
    I meant to say ToonTown is below my age bracket. Below! Oh, well... maybe it isn't.


    'amplify' by darrenl
    Submitted on 2009-05-08 00:39:04 CST
    @Akely...you can comment stuff like that here, no worries ;)

    @Seritaph - I'm thinking that FreeRealms really has no age bracket. Sure, it's marketed to kids but it is for all ages.



    'Loose terms' by Seritaph
    Submitted on 2009-05-08 15:13:47 CST
    Well the whole age thing is relative. I know plenty of adults who play games marketed to kids (Webkins, Club Penguin, etc), and you're never too old to have fun. But Free Realms is definitely skewed to appeal to a modern young demographic, which is why I think it personally didn't hold my interest.

    Perhaps I enjoyed ToonTown more because I grew up on old Saturday morning cartoons, where animated characters tried to thwart each other with an anvil drop, seltzer bottle, or a falling piano.

    I wish SOE success though. I like a lot of their other games, so if Free Realms brings in revenue for them to develop and expand, I'm all for it!



    '\o/' by FarSpace
    Submitted on 2009-05-09 16:31:53 CST
    Thanks for your views on useing real names and stuff like that on the internet.

    It helps out a lot to hear how other people feel about things like useing real names or not on the internet.

    I think I love when people know me as long as I at least know them too.

    And the point about being concerned about people thinking playing games and mmo's might make us look a particular childish way or whatever, but it is true today times is a lot better and much more the norm. but yes I was worried a little about that too I admit.

    but yerah lots of great points.

    The best thing is you folks made me feel a lot better about the whole thing.

    ...EVE...

    About EVE, I love the Lore more then any Lore I ever heard out side of books and movies 1st and the lore in EVE is awesome for no movie or books backing it up 1st before it came out.

    Although my favorite lore of all is Tolkien then maybe starwars.

    ...About what and how you folks do things in your podcast SUWT...

    It's all good IMO because I'm more listening to you all personaly and as for who you are and your personalities and it is just nice to hear what your saying at the same time it is still very good info and everything anyways.

    o/ :)



    'Great show' by Ceadrick
    Submitted on 2009-05-10 05:01:16 CST
    Your show is great. As long as you don't record it while eating in a restaruant I'll keep listening. Okay I'll keep listening no matter what but I might just skip that show or three if you decide to have three shows in a restaruant. Of course complaining about how one records a show when it is free is sort of stupid. So anyways have fun, love the podcast, keep it up.


    'EVE Being Slow' by blaktalon
    Submitted on 2009-05-11 18:47:16 CST
    EVE is like playing chess across 700 chess boards all at the same time while trying to juggle chainsaws. It's an acquired skill.