VirginWorlds.com - Exploring Massively Multiplayer Games

Shut Up. We're Talking.
Host: Darren and Karen
Darren and Karen present this commentary podcast covering recent topics found within the MMORPG Blogging and Podcasting community.

This Podcast Sponsored by:
Wilhelm2451

Belo

Help the Collective. Become a supporter or sponsor on the Support Page.

Shut Up. We're Talking #56
Mon, 16 Nov 2009 19:41:00 GMT [download/play]

Introductions

Listener Mail/What we're playing

Hey Look...$10 comes up again!/li>

Non-sticky MMOs

Blog of the Week

Hosts:

Darren - Commonsensegamer.com

Karen - Journey's with Jaye

Jonathan - Through the Aftermath

Blogs of the Week:

Exercise In Frustration

Random Gamer

1337 Speak

Crazy Kinux's Musing

Previous Episodes
Episode #77 - Duration: 2925 - Released: Wed, 13 Jul 2011 06:16:01 +0000
Episode #76 - Duration: 7730 - Released: Sun, 30 Jan 2011 19:34:01 +0000
Episode #75 - Duration: 4659 - Released: Sun, 12 Dec 2010 17:57:48 +0000
Episode #74 - Duration: 4071 - Released: Sun, 21 Nov 2010 20:22:45 +0000
Episode #73 - Duration: 4943 - Released: Sun, 07 Nov 2010 19:41:07 +0000
Episode #72 - Duration: 4707 - Released: Sun, 17 Oct 2010 18:28:52 +0000
Episode #71 - Duration: 3820 - Released: Sun, 26 Sep 2010 16:39:28 +0000
Episode #70 - Duration: 4623 - Released: Sun, 12 Sep 2010 15:51:32 +0000
Episode #69 - Duration: 4837 - Released: Sun, 29 Aug 2010 18:07:07 +0000
Episode #68 - Duration: 01:13:32 - Released: Sun, 15 Aug 2010 15:34:00 GMT
Episode #67 - Duration: 01:12:09 - Released: Sun, 18 Jul 2010 14:24:00 GMT
Episode #66 - Duration: 00:59:30 - Released: Mon, 5 Jul 2010 23:26:00 GMT
Episode #65 - Duration: 01:23:43 - Released: Sun, 20 Jun 2010 16:03:00 GMT
Episode #64 - Duration: - Released: Sun, 6 Jun 2010 15:51:00 GMT
Episode #63 - Duration: 01:13:26 - Released: Sun, 16 May 2010 17:52:00 GMT
Episode #62 - Duration: 01:12:04 - Released: Thu, 6 May 2010 23:28:00 GMT
Episode #61 - Duration: 01:26:12 - Released: Fri, 16 Apr 2010 01:26:00 GMT
Episode #60 - Duration: 01:57:27 - Released: Tue, 30 Mar 2010 23:34:00 GMT
Episode #59 - Duration: 01:37:24 - Released: Mon, 1 Mar 2010 03:48:00 GMT
Episode #58 - Duration: 01:21:01 - Released: Sun, 14 Feb 2010 18:45:00 GMT
Episode #57 - Duration: 01:47:46 - Released: Mon, 1 Feb 2010 19:01:00 GMT
Episode #56.5 - Duration: 00:02:21 - Released: Wed, 20 Jan 2010 12:26:00 GMT
Episode #56 - Duration: 01:01:53 - Released: Mon, 16 Nov 2009 19:41:00 GMT
Episode #55 - Duration: 01:16:27 - Released: Tue, 20 Oct 2009 02:31:00 GMT
Episode #54 - Duration: 01:14:25 - Released: Mon, 28 Sep 2009 01:51:00 GMT
Episode #53 - Duration: 01:31:47 - Released: Tue, 8 Sep 2009 04:12:00 GMT
Episode #52.5 - Duration: 00:04:12 - Released: Wed, 2 Sep 2009 19:43:00 GMT
Episode #52 - Duration: 01:04:24 - Released: Tue, 28 Jul 2009 16:35:00 GMT
Episode #51 - Duration: 01:17:30 - Released: Mon, 13 Jul 2009 23:49:00 GMT
Episode #50 - Duration: 01:35:33 - Released: Mon, 29 Jun 2009 16:15:00 GMT
Episode #49 - Duration: 01:03:31 - Released: Tue, 16 Jun 2009 21:27:00 GMT
Episode #48 - Duration: 01:13:44 - Released: Thu, 4 Jun 2009 15:25:00 GMT
Episode #47 - Duration: 01:10:07 - Released: Sun, 10 May 2009 21:21:00 GMT
Episode #46 - Duration: 01:27:11 - Released: Mon, 4 May 2009 02:05:00 GMT
Episode #45 - Duration: 01:04:36 - Released: Mon, 13 Apr 2009 20:01:00 GMT
Episode #44 - Duration: 00:56:47 - Released: Mon, 16 Mar 2009 16:15:00 GMT
Episode #43.1 - Duration: 00:18:59 - Released: Mon, 9 Mar 2009 20:11:00 GMT
Episode #43 - Duration: 00:59:34 - Released: Mon, 23 Feb 2009 01:24:00 GMT
Episode #42 - Duration: 01:11:28 - Released: Sun, 8 Feb 2009 15:14:00 GMT
Episode #41 - Duration: 01:06:59 - Released: Mon, 26 Jan 2009 01:55:00 GMT
Episode #40.5 - Duration: 00:02:50 - Released: Mon, 19 Jan 2009 17:48:00 GMT
Episode #40 - Duration: 01:16:52 - Released: Mon, 22 Dec 2008 02:45:00 GMT
Episode #39 - Duration: 01:08:43 - Released: Mon, 15 Dec 2008 06:01:00 GMT
Episode #38 - Duration: 00:37:38 - Released: Mon, 1 Dec 2008 05:49:00 GMT
Episode #37 - Duration: - Released: Mon, 17 Nov 2008 17:26:00 GMT
Episode #36 - Duration: 01:10:59 - Released: Mon, 3 Nov 2008 03:03:00 GMT
Episode #35 - Duration: 00:49:08 - Released: Sun, 19 Oct 2008 22:54:00 GMT
Episode #34 - Duration: 01:08:50 - Released: Sun, 5 Oct 2008 19:38:00 GMT
Episode #33 - Duration: 00:58:54 - Released: Mon, 8 Sep 2008 01:42:00 GMT
Episode #32 - Duration: 01:03:27 - Released: Sun, 24 Aug 2008 19:01:00 GMT
Episode #31 - Duration: 01:05:03 - Released: Sun, 3 Aug 2008 20:13:00 GMT
Episode #30 - Duration: 00:59:20 - Released: Mon, 21 Jul 2008 00:44:00 GMT
Episode #29 - Duration: 00:28:31 - Released: Sat, 28 Jun 2008 13:48:00 GMT
Episode #28 - Duration: 01:09:13 - Released: Sun, 15 Jun 2008 19:31:00 GMT
Episode #27 - Duration: 01:14:25 - Released: Mon, 2 Jun 2008 02:42:00 GMT
Episode #26 - Duration: 01:06:47 - Released: Mon, 19 May 2008 03:10:00 GMT
Episode #25 - Duration: 01:01:48 - Released: Mon, 28 Apr 2008 01:46:00 GMT
Episode #24 - Duration: 00:57:48 - Released: Mon, 14 Apr 2008 00:00:00 GMT
Episode #23 - Duration: 00:47:54 - Released: Mon, 31 Mar 2008 01:05:00 GMT
Episode #22 - Duration: 01:12:16 - Released: Mon, 17 Mar 2008 04:54:00 GMT
Episode #21 - Duration: 01:56:55 - Released: Fri, 7 Mar 2008 05:01:00 GMT
Episode #20 - Duration: 00:49:01 - Released: Mon, 18 Feb 2008 04:08:00 GMT
Episode #19 - Duration: 01:01:05 - Released: Sun, 3 Feb 2008 05:08:00 GMT
Episode #18 - Duration: 01:08:01 - Released: Mon, 21 Jan 2008 02:35:00 GMT
Episode #17 - Duration: 01:36:26 - Released: Mon, 7 Jan 2008 04:07:00 GMT
Episode #16 - Duration: 01:06:39 - Released: Mon, 24 Dec 2007 15:58:00 GMT
Episode #15 - Duration: 01:33:23 - Released: Mon, 10 Dec 2007 01:24:00 GMT
Episode #14 - Duration: 01:24:15 - Released: Mon, 26 Nov 2007 07:47:00 GMT
Episode #13 - Duration: 01:22:18 - Released: Mon, 12 Nov 2007 01:30:00 GMT
Episode #12 - Duration: 01:17:38 - Released: Mon, 29 Oct 2007 16:55:00 GMT
Episode #11 - Duration: 01:17:01 - Released: Mon, 15 Oct 2007 03:30:00 GMT
Episode #10 - Duration: 01:00:37 - Released: Mon, 1 Oct 2007 03:33:00 GMT
Episode #9 - Duration: 01:12:13 - Released: Mon, 17 Sep 2007 04:47:00 GMT
Episode #8 - Duration: 01:24:35 - Released: Tue, 4 Sep 2007 02:44:00 GMT
Episode #7 - Duration: 01:11:21 - Released: Mon, 20 Aug 2007 04:05:00 GMT
Episode #6 - Duration: 01:10:07 - Released: Mon, 6 Aug 2007 01:13:00 GMT
Episode #5 - Duration: 00:58:57 - Released: Mon, 23 Jul 2007 01:50:00 GMT
Episode #4 - Duration: 01:13:04 - Released: Mon, 9 Jul 2007 03:52:00 GMT
Episode #3 - Duration: 01:10:25 - Released: Sun, 24 Jun 2007 17:20:00 GMT
Episode #2 - Duration: 01:09:48 - Released: Wed, 6 Jun 2007 05:20:00 GMT
Episode #1 - Duration: 01:08:21 - Released: Mon, 28 May 2007 02:12:00 GMT

Episode 56 Discussion Thread

'Aww...Shucks. =P' by Luper

Submitted on 2009-11-17 20:55:44 CST
Thanks for the shout out. I thought it was so funny that you said you'd run away from me Karen! Haha! I'm not that good and I'd hope you'd be on the same side as me. =P Elyos FTW! Hehe.

I always enjoy listening to your shows. Keep 'em coming!

~Luper

'15mins of fame' by Yoh

Submitted on 2009-11-18 23:21:34 CST
Thanks for the shout out guys, really appreciate it.

Sorry about not having blogged much lately, becoming a developer takes a great deal of time, and I just haven't had any time to play games or find anything interesting worth blogging on.

But I did come up with something while listening to the show.

As you were talking about how some MMO elements are creeping into single player RPG's and games in general, it reminds me of some of the more negative gameplay elements that have began to appear.

Namely, grinding, kill ten rats, pointless and repetitive quests, etc etc.
So I think I might blog about that later in the day.

I really want to play Dragon Age now...... but I have to stay focused..... can't... let myself.... get ...... distracted........... damn that looks good.

Maybe next year.

~Yoh

'RE: the panda' by Jemre
Submitted on 2009-11-20 03:59:12 CST
only just got around to listening to #56 now, but the panda is associated with the Warcraft games because it's the nickname of their art director, and he always works them into the game: http://www.wowwiki.com/Samwise_Didier

'Misfire?' by Andrew

Submitted on 2009-11-20 16:05:38 CST
Nice show guys, although I think you managed to completely avoid talking about "Non-sticky MMOs", and instead had a discussion about the convergence of MMOs and more traditional single player games and multiplayer games.

I'd love to hear an actual discussion on "Non-sticky MMOs" from the angle that the topic was announced: i.e. why is it that so many players (or, perhaps, bloggers) seem to have such a hard time playing a since MMO. Reading around it is obvious that (outside of the hardcore single game blogs), an awful lot of people migrate from game to game, or even play multiple games simultaneously. Why is this? How common is it? Is it a positive thing, or perhaps a sign that MMOs are changing and the market diversifying?

---

On another topic entirely, someone (Jonathan?) suggested that the EVE blogging community was more tight knit that most single-game blogging communities. I think this is mistaken. Look at the WoW blogosphere for example (which I used to be a part of) - the links between the various sites are just as strong as the (much smaller) EVE Blog Pack, and they have central hub sites (like Blog Azeroth) to organize shared topics and so forth.

WAR was also famous for having an extremely tight-knit blogging community prior to/during its release. Interestingly, this community fell apart simultaneously as players realized how badly Mythic had flubbed the launch. the bloggers fed off each other's frustrations, and as the game's membership crumbled it was amplified online by the hardcore fans blogging their disappointment and rage.

'EVE's Blogging Community' by Yoh

Submitted on 2009-11-21 05:03:20 CST
I don't think it's mistake Andrew, but you are right about WoW also having a strong community.

From what I can tell, EVE community, relative to all non-wow MMO's, is uniquely stronger then usual, for one straightforward reason. EVE simulates real society to a much greater degree then any other game, including WoW.

However, you've got to remember, WoW is 11 million strong, and EVE has only 300K.
And yet despite this, it still has a very active, very committed community.
Where as WoW is just very, very big.

Quality over quantity.

~Yoh

'Not so abnormal' by Andrew

Submitted on 2009-11-21 13:03:19 CST
Have you actually gone seriously looking through any of the WoW community sites that connect up the bloggers, Yoh. It's not just that it's a bigger game - there's a lot of interplay and collaboration between a huge portion of the bloggers/podcasters. Yeah - there are stragglers that just talk to themselves, but the same is true anywhere.

EVE's 150k players (300k subscribers) have a great little group, sure, but they're hardly unique. I already pointed to WAR as well, and I'm certain that if we start looking at other games you'll find that they have their own communities.

As much as the EVE community is convinced that they're special (the elitism runs deep in some quarters), they're not all that different from the rest of the MMO communities.

'Biased are we?' by Yoh

Submitted on 2009-11-21 23:48:23 CST
It looks like we aren't going to see eye to eye on this.

But show me a player from any other non-wow game that is willing to go so far as to tattoo the name of an imaginary rock on their arm, and then I'll concede.

I'm not too sure what your talking about 'Elitism', whatever the fuck that is.
It's not a matter of people thinking their special, rather than being wicked dedicated.
While you find various degrees of dedication in every game, but when that extends to a host of player made videos, music, and even tattoos.... well that's something else entirely.

All I'm saying is, that there is a reason for this behavior, and no, not every MMO has the same level of dedication.

Note: I wasn't referring to the community being so much unique, as the social engineering of EVE. That you don't find anywhere else except in real life.
(ie, like the economy)

A factor to this may very well be the fact the EVE is 6 years old, and has had time to mature and solidify it's community, where as most MMO's haven't.

But somehow I doubt you'll ever be persuaded by this.

~Yoh

'For example' by Andrew

Submitted on 2009-11-22 12:17:17 CST
You write "Quality over quantity." in your last post, referring to EVE's community versus WoWs, and then wonder why I mention elitism. Come on man.

Also, you've now shifted the debate well away from my initial assertion that EVE's blogging comminity is no more tight knit than any other MMO blogging community and transitioned into arguing that EVE's fanbois are more rabid (dedicated, obsessed, whatever) than those of other Non-WoW games, and create more related artistic pieces.

I didn't claim anything about that, but I still think you're wrong and your opinion is coloured by not engaging in the communities of any games aside from EVE. Either way, that's a lot tougher to prove for either of us. I'll point to the DDOCast as a good example of some amazing dedication/obsession/creativity by members of the DDO community. Just recently a player created a ~60m audio beauty pageant with community involvement that aired on the show. (http://www.missstormreach.com/) And that's just a single isolated example - there are piles of community projects flowing out of that game.

The one thing that we can agree is that EVE does have unique social game play that is currently not seen in any other game.

'Research Project' by worldplay
Submitted on 2009-12-01 18:05:06 CST
Hi,

I am a student at Trinity University in San Antonio doing a collaborative research project on transnational communication in MMOs. Our focus is on how players from around the globe communicate in the game and their experiences with others from outside their own country. More information on the project can be found at http://www.trinity.edu/adelwich/transnational/students.html.

I was wondering if perhaps myself or one of my collaborators could appear as a guest on your show, or if you would be willing to provide some information about our project to your listeners? The data we are using for our project is information provided by gamers and people who are interested in gaming.

Please let me know if this would be possible, you can contact us at worldplayresearch@gmail.com

Thanks a lot,

Ashley Funkhouser